C191

[2002tiiguy]

Anyone wanna go in on amphenol military connectors to replace the factory one? If I get 10 people to buy them it'll be like $10 off both sides and about $80 for the whole thing, just kicking the idea around

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[SmokeE30]

you could also just solder it together like an early harness for cheaper, but Link to connector your talking about?

[2002tiiguy]

Don't have one specifically yet

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[sumoashe]

Wouldn't waste the money on a mil-spec connector. Don't forget that it's not just the price of the connector, but the price of the crimp tool. Which a proper one will run a couple hundred. You can get away with the cheap crimp tool's, but from experience they don't give a proper crimp. Leading to loose connections. Another option to look into would be a Delphi/Packard GT-150 or GT-280 8 way plug setup. Fully sealed, and the crimp tool will run you round $35. In total you'll be out bout $50 for everything including tool.

One thing you need to keep in mind too is that when your removing the old connector your shortening the wires. Figure you'll lose a good 1-2 inches of wire length. So you'll have to make sure there's enough length as to not cause strain on the connection.

Another option on the cheap side is to pull the stock connector apart and clean it really well. Then get some adhesive lined shrink tube and use that to seal the connector. It'll be a bitch to get apart if you ever need to, but it'll be sealed.

you could also just solder it together like an early harness for cheaper

You can do this aswell, but don't solder them. Solder will actually make the connection weaker. Instead use crimp splices. You can get either crimp/shrink tube in one, or unsealed crimps. Simply apply adhesive lined shrink tube after crimping the unsealed version. Keep in mind tho that with this route you'll have 7 splices in one spot. This won't effect strength, but will be bulky at that spot. Almost as bulky as the stock connector.

[2002tiiguy]

Solder pins

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[sumoashe]

^
Again, no solder. Solder is the incorrect way to do it. There's no solder in a stock harness, no solder in a motorsport harness. Solder creates a weak spot in the connection, causing it to be more brittle than the surrounding area. Eventually leading to failure. It's easier to do it right the first time than to have to redo it. Solder pins will lead to failure also. As vibration and strain effect the pin it causes them stretch and warp. Eventually leading to intermittent connection as the pin moves about within the socket.

[2002tiiguy]

Ok, look, I'm not going to argue with you, these connectors are used in airplanes between the engine mount and the engine, this is how it's done and I am sure that there is more vibration there, besides the back of the connector has a clamp for the wires and then your solder joint isn't flexed

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[2002tiiguy]

The pins are supported by the connector shell so they won't flex

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[2002tiiguy]

But I have the correct pin crimping tools anyway

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[sumoashe]

besides the back of the connector has a clamp for the wires

Those aren't the amp connectors you want to be looking at. Not if they've got the cable clamp setup. Amp has specific automotive connectors like those. The stock one is a amp cpc series based model. But why stick with a circular series, no real reason for it other than the harness bracket bmw spec'ed. That's why I suggested the delphi/packard series. Small, fully sealed, and cheap.

But I have the correct pin crimping tools anyway

You may have it, but how many other do. If you going to offer this, you also gonna offer the use of your crimp tool? That's another plus to the delphi setup. Uses a cheap readily available crimp tool. Me personally, I would go with a deutsch dt series for a budget option. Well sorta budget option.

Not trying to argue with you either, but I build wiring harnesses for a side business. Main business is track day sportbikes, but have done track cars, trophy trucks, and even karting stuff.. Ranging from budget setups to full blown true mil-spec motorsports harnesses. Just trying to share a little knowledge to make it easier for others to do their own stuff correctly. Take it or leave it, no skin off my back. But remember, you only get to do this once, maybe twice if your lucky and have the extra wire length in the harness. Which the stock one does not. After that your either patching in a whole bunch of wire adding possible failure points. Or your gutting the whole harness to replace 7 wires. Do as you want tho.

[2002tiiguy]

Nono, just trying to work out a reliable and reproducible solution for this issue, and just out of curiosity, how did they originally assemble the connector? And is there a bracket for it?

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[sumoashe]

Number 10 is the bracket. It bolts to the head/intake manifold. The round hole in the middle is what holds c191. On early model cars this bracket wasn't needed, as the the injector section of the harness was one solid piece. Generally this was the case up to 86'. After that they went to the two piece setup with the c191 connector. There's also a semi year split on the c191 connector. Early versions of this had the connector, but the injector wires themselves were still loose. Then they went to the injector rail setup with the wiring being incased in a plastic rail so you couldn't mess up the injector wiring order.



You can just make out the bracket and c191, lower left right next to the bitch tube.

Here's the later style injector connector rail setup.


And the semi year split design.


The main issue with the stock harness is not the wire's or really even the connector. But the harness sheathing. Over time it becomes stiff, no longer flexing and instead pulling on the wires and connectors wearing them out. Most people don't understand that there's a set number of time's that the connectors can be unplugged and plugged back in before they get loose causing connection issues. On the stock harness that amount of times is rated at between 10 and 20. It's not the connector themselves, but the pins. Higher end pins (silver and gold plated) have a higher number of times you can do this before becoming loose.

[2002tiiguy]

Ooh kk that makes sense now, I have an 89with the plastic loom but my bracket is missing


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[sumoashe]

Yeah what alot of people miss, and what causes alot of complaints about the c191 connector is a missing bracket. You see the bracket serves several functions. Its serves as a mounting bracket, strain relief to the injector sub harness, and most importantly its part of the sealing system. The connector actually seals against the bracket, keeping water out. That's why without it you can see a gap in the connector between the two halves. And thus water gets in corroding the contacts.

[2002tiiguy]

Lol no I completely understand now, but there's no indication that there should have been a bracket there

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