What are the BEST M20 long tube headers on the market?

[MPLFoster]

There was a set of RD headers for sale yesterday.


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...for an E34. not exactly sure what it takes to fit them in an E30. i wanted something bolt on so i went with eBay long tube headers. they look decent. welds are good. we'll see how they perform.

[MPLFoster]

Soooo do NOT get those eBay special ss headers by topspeed auto. They are junk. It's scary how bad they fit. Would have to beat in the strut tower and unibody which Im not about to do.

I should have done more research. Found a thread where someone installed these and had major issues. He ended up heating up and beating in the unibody. No thanks. :hitler:

Gonna try to return them and hold out for the real deal.

Again, avoid topspeedauto ss headers on eBay. They don't fit.

[whodwho]

Disappointing, their catback quality and fitment was spot on.

[Ether-D]

Dammit! Really? MPLfoster, are your motor mounts and trans mounts in good shape? That could (would) affect fitment. I just really wanted these to fit. Double fuck...

[Nesset]

Stahl Stahl Stahl. Seen their products on 2002's and a few E30's. I've heard nothing bad about them so far.. Looking to get a Stahl manifold for my 2002 actually sometime...

[whodwho]

They hang too low on an E30 and usually are flattened in no time unless you are running stock height

[Ether-D]

Whodwho, are you talking about the stahl ones?

[MPLFoster]

My motor and trans mounts are new oem rubber. I have solid Condor motor mounts i could have tried but the extra clearance they would have afforded would have been minuscule. The oem mounts are fresh.

Pretty bummed about it. Wanted them to work as well. I'll check out stahl and see what they have to offer..

And yeah ether, these ebay headers would hang super low. Just not a good fit anywhere really.

[MR 325]

Soooo do NOT get those eBay special ss headers by topspeed auto. They are junk. It's scary how bad they fit. Would have to beat in the strut tower and unibody which Im not about to do.

I should have done more research. Found a thread where someone installed these and had major issues. He ended up heating up and beating in the unibody. No thanks. :hitler:

Gonna try to return them and hold out for the real deal.

Again, avoid topspeedauto ss headers on eBay. They don't fit.

They fit perfectly on the car we installed them on.

[Ether-D]

Was it stock height mr 325?

[whodwho]

Whodwho, are you talking about the stahl ones?

I was, not sure on the topspeed ones

[MPLFoster]

They fit perfectly on the car we installed them on.

I wish they had fit perfectly on mine. This guy had the same issue recently.

And the moment we've all been waiting for. Fitment.

TLDR: 1-2-3 bank fits great. Installed with all studs present. Bolt pattern is right. Hugs the block tightly. Exit is appropriate. Required removal of OEM metal splash guard guy down below. 4-5-6 bank doesn't fit. Got it the closest with all studs removed. Is probably 5 degrees off at its "most wedged" position. Is pretty close to fitting, but would require serious hammer time on runners 4 and 5, or the strut tower, neither of which I'm ok with.

Where to from here?

Option A: Return the Topspeed's through ebay, pray to god/allah/whomever I can get a set when the IE longtubes get back in stock (supposedly soon?).

Option B: Reassemble the exhaust/tow the car up to work, cut the flange off and reweld the rear bank at the flange once arranged to fit.

Both options put me out another ~$200. Not sure when the IE's will be available or what other complications I'll run into attempting to modify the Topspeeds.

Pictures!













And in other news, I found my brake fluid consumption culprit. All four corners, the master cylinder, and all lines dry. Then this guy.



Time for a new Mr. Slave.

Given the scarcity of nice headers available privately and IE/any other vendor never having stock, I went with option B: chop/cut/rebuild. I cut the primaries right at the flange, and hammered out the remaining tubing inside the flange.

First attempt: removed 7/16" by cutting the primaries on the non head side (duh) of the flange. Placed the collector pretty much dead in the middle of the area between the control arm bushing and the transmission. Not even close to allowing enough room for the 1-2-3 bank.

Second attempt: removed roughly another 7/16" (the width of the flange) from the primaries. Now we're getting somewhere. It has put me uncomfortably close to the bend on the #6 primary, but it still fits flush inside the flange. Whole assembly fits decently (1mm between the headers themselves, and 1mm between #4 and the strut tower....heh) when swung towards the outside of the car, and rotated counter clockwise (looking down on the motor from the passenger side).

Everything is marked, and I'll tack it at work tomorrow morning. Once tacked, I'll do a final mockup just to be sure, then fully weld them. Unfortunately I couldn't swing getting the whole thing tacked on the car, so this might be an iterative process :sad:. The remainder of the build parts (minus the wideband) arrive tomorrow, and I'm going to check out other powdercoaters locally here in CLT for the valvecover and a few other small things. Shooting to be at Eurowise for the exhaust build week after next.

Pictures!

Wooo. Headers are in and done. TIG welded, and cleaned up the inside port with a rotary sander. Port entrance isn't wonderful, but it's probably as good as the 1-2-3 header. Clears both the 1-2-3 header and the strut tower, all while exiting at a reasonable angle. Ended up converting the 4-5-6 header to 30mm M8x1.25 bolts with M8 lockwashers. Just too much of a PITA to get the header in with studs installed.

Cleaned up the cylinder head, installed new gaskets, studs and copper nuts. Ended up degreasing the underside of the car after I installed the new slave cylinder too.

I need to cut down a 6mm hex socket to get the lower bolt on #5, and I'll need to make a stubby 12mm open end wrench to get to the lower nut on #1. Weather permitting I'm going to swing it by eurowise today so they can order parts.

Thanks! Whole project should start moving faster next week.

Yay stubbies. Aggressively shortened ball-end hex socket to get to the 4-5-6 header bolts.

Got over to Eurowise today and met with Keith and Phil who will be building the exhaust. CEL came on, but most likely due to lack of O2 sensor. Here's what we ended up with:

Header will slip fit to dual 2" to single 2.5" stainless merge. The merge will have a bung for the AEM wideband on the inner side, parallel to the ground. After the merge will be a 2.5" stainless flex section. This will be followed by (PN 1141) Vibrant ultra-quiet 10" resonator. The first section will end with a bend and maybe 6 inches of tubing terminated with a 2.5" V-band clamp. The rear or "axle back" section will then end with another Vibrant PN 1141, with a 2.5 to 3" stainless rolled tip. Keith and Phil examined my options at length with me, and were very helpful!

And a few more pictures of header fitment.

TL; DR: Same issue as my set. Had to chop the primaries 7/8" at the head flange and even then there was only 1mm clearance between 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 primaries as well as 1mm clearance between primary #4 and the strut tower. Had to install bolts and lock washers in place of studs since it was too tight to fit with studs installed. Hangs super low under the car.





Was going to talk to my exhaust guy about trying this but it seems like more trouble than it's worth.

[Madhatter]

not quite as long as some I guess.