F-in M20's!! I HATE EM!

[nando]

hold on a sec,

are you guys referring to the area close to the oil filter housing? I have a bit of a leak there too...not enough to make the level go down, nor leave spots on the driveway, but it's a bit of a mess honestly.

I was gonna re-seal my oil filter housing and oil cooler lines but if it's just gonna be a waste, well to hell with it then!!!

thanks for the info!

no, the corner of the block where the oil drains back into the oil pan.

I wouldn't use RTV on the oil filter housing (thats a common leak - you just need to replace the seals there), or on the headgasket area other than that corner.

regardless of "today's quality gaskets" M20s tend to leak on that corner.

[rjteeter]

I definitely wouldn't use any liquid gasket on a head gasket for the m20. And if you do it would be a very find bead around things such as coolant passages and cylinder walls. Then you would have to ever so slightly tighten the head bolts by hand and let it set for a couple of hours before torquing to actual specs so the gasket sealer didn't just squirt back out or into some place it shouldn't be.

I do believe that old V8 and muscle car guys use the rtv sealant but for the M20 and todays quality gaskets there shouldn't be a need.

[Stanley Rockefeller]

hold on a sec,

are you guys referring to the area close to the oil filter housing? I have a bit of a leak there too...not enough to make the level go down, nor leave spots on the driveway, but it's a bit of a mess honestly.

I was gonna re-seal my oil filter housing and oil cooler lines but if it's just gonna be a waste, well to hell with it then!!!

thanks for the info!

[kenika65]

Good Info on right front corner leak! Thanks

[nando]

put a dab of RTV on that corner - it's supposed to help the leak there. pretty much every M20 I've seen leaks from that spot including my own, so I wouldn't sweat it much. it's not enough to make the oil level go down, it's more of a nuisance as it makes a pretty good mess everywhere.

[Sean]

sean, whatever you do, DON'T put in metric blues!

if you want better fasenters, studs are the only way to go - otherwise, stick to stock. I don't think the clamping force of the stock bolts is a problem, and i'm almost certain they are better than metric blues. no reason to upgrade the headgasket on what is essentially a stock bottom end either.

where specifically is it leaking from the head? front passenger corner, or somewhere else?

Yep, front passenger corner. The problem spot. I thought it was leaking there before (I had a leak in the front of my motor) but it wasn't until I had the head off that I saw the leak coming out of the same seal region. By then, I needed a new headgasket anyways (since it was off).

There really was no reason to remove the motor other than me wanting to clean it up real nice again. That, and I wanted to keep all my wires and such organized. It wasn't the brightest idea, but it was my attempt at perfection. Obviously, had I just left my motor alone and saved myself money, I'd have a fine oil pan and un-leaking headgasket. Although, the cam seal would require removal of the t-belt anyways.

I think what I'll do is just live with it for now...it sucks, but whatever. Then, over the school year, slowly build up my supereta head (same as I casting, just different internals) and swap that on next summer or somethin. At that time, I'll just use a stock gasket with nothing on it, torque it down to two perfectly clean surfaces, just like I did when I first built the motor and HOPEFULLY have no leak. :)

Kenika - Yea, I clean them out using the compressed air nozzle on our compressor, blew all the oil outta the holes.

[nando]

sean, whatever you do, DON'T put in metric blues!

if you want better fasenters, studs are the only way to go - otherwise, stick to stock. I don't think the clamping force of the stock bolts is a problem, and i'm almost certain they are better than metric blues. no reason to upgrade the headgasket on what is essentially a stock bottom end either.

where specifically is it leaking from the head? front passenger corner, or somewhere else?

[kenika65]

You live you learn and that is how you become a good mechanic! You can only do something perfect after you have found every way to mess it up.

What I dont understand is why you pulled the motor to fix a leak?


Well keep your head up high and do it right next time And this time when you pull the head I hope you keep the intake and exhaust connected to save you some time and money. oh ya and I would say put another new timing belt on there this time.

And be sure to clean every head bolt hole out really good before putting the bolts in.

[Sean]

Hmm, well, I guess I trusted him. He always said it worked for him.

Yea, it sucks. Yes, I'm pissed. Ely, I didn't have time to screw with having the head checked. I only had it off 25k ago, so I figured it wouldn't be a problem. AND, I assumed that throwing something on their would for sure prevent a leak - but I guess that assumption was wrong as well.

I never thought about the affect that having more sealer in one spot than another is the same as torquing it down more in one spot that another. Hmmm... Looks like it was a big ol' mistake. Well, damn.

Chris, I know it's not any of those because when I pulled the motor apart I fixed the cam leak, and there were no other leaks.

The leak that's occurring now is that slow lame leak at the front pass. side of the engine, between the block and head.

Don't get me wrong guys, I don't "hate" M20s. I built my motor 2 years ago. But, I'm just pissed because I'm back at school and don't really have a garage or anywhere to work on my car anymore. Nor do I have the time. And, having pulled the motor to ease the pain of pulling the head, it just sucks to have done all that work in vein.

So, in a way I'm just venting and praying to god I can make the leak stop...

If I did all this again, I woulda just done an S50 swap. Then again...it's nice having a rebuilt motor. meh.

[Madhatter]

thats not quite true, products like hylomar exist for this exact purpose and many engine builders use it, in particular around water jackets and galleries.

[ColdAccord]

new gasket or not you're not supposed to use anything on a headgasket.

[rThor432]

I dont understand why the guy would have recommended that you use sealer on a new gasket? A proper gasket doesnt need sealer at all, and using anything that could throw off the straightness of the mating surface is bad anyway.

If there is a little more sealer that in one spot than another, once the head is compressed it is the same as effectively having a warped head, just because there is that much more material there than in another spot.

Sorry, I'm just really picky about head jobs.

Also, if you hate M20's, just think about having to set up Vanos units and such. Not that there is anything terribly difficult about it, just that it is one more thing added into the equation.

[ColdAccord]

fuck it, cheaper to buy an m50

[AlarmedBread]

MLS? What do you mean?

Multi-Layer Steel head gasket.

Definitely sure it's the HG and not the cam seal or rocker shaft plugs? Metric blues work pretty good though you shouldn't need to crank them any tighter than the stock bolts. I never liked that gasket 'sealer' stuff, the only thing I use is high tack for gaskets that like to move around a lot.

[JGood]

uh im pretty sure you need a new head gasket EVERY TIME.

Some MLS gaskets are considered reusable.