Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

TDC sensor on bell housing damaged - how? (eta)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    TDC sensor on bell housing damaged - how? (eta)

    We recently installed a new clutch and flywheel in our 24 Hours of LeMons 87 325e racer. We converted to a single mass flywheel because our last clutch literally grenaded and somehow the TDC pin on the flywheel disappeared, so we figured we'd upgrade at the same time.

    Yesterday we took the car to a local autocross, and about 2/3 of the way through our first run, the car started losing power and popping out of the exhaust. After the run was done, I heard a rhythmic chirping sound, like a loose belt or something. I pulled into the pits and after a few seconds something seemed to go "pop" and the chirping stopped. I shut off the engine and it wouldn't start again.

    We weren't getting spark, and after checking everything, we figured out the TDC sensor on the flywheel didn't have any continuity. We tried to pull it out but the magnet portion broke off and is lodged in the bell housing. So today I removed the flywheel access panel to check things out.

    First thing, a square shaped chunk of metal fell out. Then when I looked inside, I could see the top of the sensor magnet had clearly been hit by something several times and was mushroomed. It's pretty clear that the chirping sound I heard was something scraping against the sensor magnet. I tried to pry the magnet out of the hole, but because it was mushroomed on top it wouldn't go through. It looked like there might be enough room to push the magnet INTO the bellhousing and fish it out, so I forced it in but unfortunately it jammed up against the flywheel and wouldn't go any further. I tried to pry it back down (hitting myself in the hand with a hammer multiple times) before giving up because I don't have my needle nose pliers with me.

    But while the sensor magnet was jammed up against the flywheel, I decided to turn the engine by hand (using a flathead screwdriver on the teeth of the flywheel - what a bitch) to see if the magnet would jam against the TDC pin on the flywheel and stop, to hopefully verify the pin was still there. It didn't stop. Unfortunately I can't look up inside the hole to verify the TDC pin is there since the magnet is currently occupying that hole.

    Anyone have a clue what the heck happened? And any suggestions on how to get the remainder of the sensor magnet out of the bell housing? I'm really hoping we don't have to pull the transmission out since we just did it a month ago.



    Below is the square chunk of metal that fell out of the bell housing (next to the undamaged sensor with no wiring).

    The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

    #2
    Might have been a (un)lucky shot with a piece of track debris getting through a drain hole into the bellhousing. That doesn't look like any piece or part of anything from a SM clutch. It's flat steel, right? My guess is that it bounced around until it stuck to the sensor, and got whacked next time the TDC pin came around. I'd say pulling the trans is an unfortunate necessity.
    sigpic

    Mike

    '91 325i track car. Mostly...

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Knockenwelle View Post
      Might have been a (un)lucky shot with a piece of track debris getting through a drain hole into the bellhousing. That doesn't look like any piece or part of anything from a SM clutch. It's flat steel, right? My guess is that it bounced around until it stuck to the sensor, and got whacked next time the TDC pin came around. I'd say pulling the trans is an unfortunate necessity.
      I can't think of any way anything could have made it inside the bellhousing area though. There aren't any holes big enough down there. Yes, it's steel, and it looks fairly old because it's kinda greasy. Looks like it snapped off something.
      The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

      Comment


        #4
        That piece looks rather like one of the triggers that are attached to the flywheel. It's been a while since I've had my hands on a flywheel for an M20B27 that used the bell housing mounted sensors, but from memory there are two attached to the flywheel.

        As to what caused it to come loose... If the airgaps were incorrect, it is possible that one of the sensors rubbed a trigger and caused a separation.
        The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
        Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

        Comment


          #5
          It is a reference point for one of the reference sensors. They have been known to fly off and cause damage.

          The car also wont run correctly with out it back in the correct spot either.

          This is one reason I wont run anything but Motronic 1.1/1.3 on an m20.

          If I was you I would opp for a lightweight flywheel when replacing it.

          1986 325es (69k) Garage Queen Buy It Now 10k;1986 325es (track rat) 2.7i How-To & 1.1/1.3Motronic UpGrade
          1991 318is (daily driver) 1991 318is M42 Maintenance How-To;1989 325i (parts car)

          Comment


            #6
            Here's a photo of the flywheel (with the TDC pin) and of the chunk of metal that came off. IMO the piece of metal looks too thin to be the TDC pin, but I dunno.



            The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

            Comment


              #7
              Well pop in a new reference sensor and if it starts and runs just as good then the reference mark is still intact...

              1986 325es (69k) Garage Queen Buy It Now 10k;1986 325es (track rat) 2.7i How-To & 1.1/1.3Motronic UpGrade
              1991 318is (daily driver) 1991 318is M42 Maintenance How-To;1989 325i (parts car)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by kenika65 View Post
                Well pop in a new reference sensor and if it starts and runs just as good then the reference mark is still intact...
                Well that's the first problem I'm facing. The sensor is still stuck in the hole and I'm struggling to get it out, so I can't just "pop" a new one in.

                Once the sensor is out I should have able to look up into the hole and actually see if the pin is still there or not.
                The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

                Comment


                  #9
                  ^lube is your friend.

                  1986 325es (69k) Garage Queen Buy It Now 10k;1986 325es (track rat) 2.7i How-To & 1.1/1.3Motronic UpGrade
                  1991 318is (daily driver) 1991 318is M42 Maintenance How-To;1989 325i (parts car)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by kenika65 View Post
                    ^lube is your friend.
                    Unfortunately lube won't unbend metal. Did you read the beginning post in this thread?
                    The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Finally wrestled the damn sensor out and long story short... looks like the transmission is coming out. I am so pissed.

                      The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Could upgrade to Motronic 1.1/1.3 and eliminate the bellhousing sensors!

                        Click on my 2.7i how to in my sig.

                        1986 325es (69k) Garage Queen Buy It Now 10k;1986 325es (track rat) 2.7i How-To & 1.1/1.3Motronic UpGrade
                        1991 318is (daily driver) 1991 318is M42 Maintenance How-To;1989 325i (parts car)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by kenika65 View Post
                          Could upgrade to Motronic 1.1/1.3 and eliminate the bellhousing sensors!

                          Click on my 2.7i how to in my sig.
                          That's like killing a fly with an elephant gun.

                          May consider it after the next race.
                          The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Update: While I haven't done any further disassembly of the car, I think I figured out what happened after some further investigation on the internet:



                            The mystery chunk of metal that fell out of the bellhousing sure looks like an ear on the release bearing broke off, which became shrapnel and eventually took out the TDC pin:



                            The engine was making a loud repetitive chirping noise right before it died, and I bet it was the bearing.

                            Apparently the newer release bearings have a plastic collar so this cannot happen. Great.



                            So at least we know what happened. Now we just have to fix it :(
                            The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X