JT's M20 Build Thread

[mikey.antonakakis]

Absolutely you can do one at a time, but is it hurting anything?

Just leaky, that's all. I just pulled the trans to replace all the seals and did the oil pan gasket while it was out, so it hurts me emotionally that it's still leaving spots haha.

I might try doubling up gaskets first. Probably find a new VC while I'm at it, mine's a bit warped now.

Sorry for the sidetrack!

[ForcedFirebird]

Absolutely you can do one at a time, but is it hurting anything?

[mikey.antonakakis]

Personally have installed many sets of m20 studs at work, and there was only a couple of times I encountered the baffle/stud clearance issue. Once was an eta that had the head shaved well past factory indicators, the other time was the client used Mini 4v studs and shaved the bottoms off. Back before you could purchase an m20 head stud kit, it was about $400 to piece meal a set, but could purchase two sets of Mini stud kits for less than $200 and have spares (10 bolts on 4cyl, 14 on 6-shooters = 6extra for less $$).

I have a feeling that's how my kit came, pieced together from Mini kits. It at least sounds familiar. I probably got them 2011 or 2012.

Thoughts on replacing studs one at at time? Drain the block of coolant first? Just do it? Don't ever do it? Would be nice to fix the leak without having to pull the head...

[JehTehsus]

Personally have installed many sets of m20 studs at work, and there was only a couple of times I encountered the baffle/stud clearance issue. Once was an eta that had the head shaved well past factory indicators, the other time was the client used Mini 4v studs and shaved the bottoms off. Back before you could purchase an m20 head stud kit, it was about $400 to piece meal a set, but could purchase two sets of Mini stud kits for less than $200 and have spares (10 bolts on 4cyl, 14 on 6-shooters = 6extra for less $$).

Good to know. My block has been decked a touch, which I suppose could contribute if there is an issue. Overall I think I am actually happy with the studs, even if I do end up having to modify valve cover. Rather know I got them torqued properly than have studs that are flush with the nuts.

[ForcedFirebird]

Personally have installed many sets of m20 studs at work, and there was only a couple of times I encountered the baffle/stud clearance issue. Once was an eta that had the head shaved well past factory indicators, the other time was the client used Mini 4v studs and shaved the bottoms off. Back before you could purchase an m20 head stud kit, it was about $400 to piece meal a set, but could purchase two sets of Mini stud kits for less than $200 and have spares (10 bolts on 4cyl, 14 on 6-shooters = 6extra for less $$).

[JehTehsus]

Not sure what it's for, but that would make sense. It wouldn't help me a ton to pull it, it's less than a mm thick and I think I have more interference than that... I don't remember where I got my studs, I've had them for quite a while, but there's a good chance mine came from IE too.

I'll take a close look at it this weekend. If it does interference I guess I'm modifying the valve cover.

[digger]

The baffles are to stop liquid oil escaping, normally only want vapours going into the intake or catch can

[mikey.antonakakis]

I'll have to take a closer look. I had it tightened down and it looked fine, but I haven't run it yet.

That said, given some of the challenges I have had with other bits from IE it would not surprise me in the slightest.

What exactly is the baffle in there for? Preventing too much oil seeping out the valve cover vent?

Not sure what it's for, but that would make sense. It wouldn't help me a ton to pull it, it's less than a mm thick and I think I have more interference than that... I don't remember where I got my studs, I've had them for quite a while, but there's a good chance mine came from IE too.

[JehTehsus]

Didn't read the whole thread in detail, but did your valve cover go on alright with those head studs? My head studs protrude a similar amount, and while chasing down an oil leak I realized the baffle plate in my early-model valve cover is hitting the tops of the studs... No wonder I had leaks. Trying to figure out how to handle it, move to late model valve cover?

I'll have to take a closer look. I had it tightened down and it looked fine, but I haven't run it yet.

That said, given some of the challenges I have had with other bits from IE it would not surprise me in the slightest.

What exactly is the baffle in there for? Preventing too much oil seeping out the valve cover vent?

[mikey.antonakakis]

Didn't read the whole thread in detail, but did your valve cover go on alright with those head studs? My head studs protrude a similar amount, and while chasing down an oil leak I realized the baffle plate in my early-model valve cover is hitting the tops of the studs... No wonder I had leaks. Trying to figure out how to handle it, move to late model valve cover?

[JehTehsus]

Not the most productive weekend, but I did have to wheel the car out of the shop. I did get the coils more or less mounted (needs paint and a couple more mounting holes), ended up using some steel we had kicking around. Need to add a brace of some sort at the top but overall I think I am pretty happy with it:










Tapped some 7/16 AN 4 holes in the TB as well, these will end up holding the IAT and vac pickup for the vacuum station:

[JehTehsus]

Yeah, I was mucking about today with some sheet metal we had kicking around, I think if I just go pick up a decent size aluminium sheet I can cut and fold it. Anchor at the bottom edge of the battery tray by the shock tower and at the top just above the ecm wire harness hole. That little bit of extra space makes all the difference. More I look at firewall piece the more I think it is going to turn into a nightmare, it just isn't anywhere near flat enough.

Good point about rubber grommets, I didn't even think about that.

[Lugnuts]

I am leaning towards a dual master cylinder setup for the brakes with a balance bar, so no possible proportioning valve failures and two truly independent circuits.

If I had to go down the rabbit hole again, this is probably what I'd go with too.

Currently trying to decide on where I am going to put all these damn coil packs

I went the battery tray route, but mine's NA + wasted spark. Plus I went with a cheaper coil pack. Few cap screws and rubber grommets for cushioning and provide a tad of spacing underneath. The space under the tray gets tighter towards the side of the car on account of the wheel well arch. Your angled plate idea might make your life easier...

[JehTehsus]

Not the same kit you're considering, but I went down the path of deleting the brake booster and installing the kit from...a company we shall refer to as "Base Chays".

Should mention I have Wilwood 4-pot DynaPro on the front and I think at the time I also had the same calipers on the rear.

Long story short, I went back to the stock booster after a couple months. First issue I encountered was the bias adjuster shitting itself. Don't know exactly when. Plunger inside jammed open. Only discovered this after pressure testing, and dismantling it through the course of trouble-shooting. Found an identical model adjuster on fleabay for some hard-to-believe price. Replaced the adjuster, but even after numerous late night brake pad run-ins (BP10, BP20), performance under emergency stopping was still a concern.

Spent a fair bit of time trying to understand brake pressure calculators - worked out all the numbers, ratios, diameters etc etc. Replaced the rears with rebuilt stock calipers - slightly better, but still a leg work out and definitely not my peace-of-mind configuration.

Final nail was the development of "thunk thunk thunk" noises under braking on the new set of rear stock rotors (still boosterless at the time). I think it was consequence of material deposits on the rotors caused by insufficient volume of fluid movement, causing the pads to drag. It's honestly surprising how little lateral run-out is required to make your brakes noisy...

I think the booster-less set up probably would have worked OK with stock calipers front and rear. I just got sufficiently fed up bleeding my brake system for the nth time, I threw in the towel, tore it all out (including my own hard line which I was quite proud of!) and chalked it up to a learning exercise. A larger master cylinder bore to accommodate the larger 4-pot calipers front and rear might have given me the performance I was hoping for ("well yeah, duh" you might be thinking). Guess I shouldn't have trusted the advice of "Base Chay's" sales person...live and learn.

For sale...one lightly used E30 booster delete kit... PM if interested :)

Thanks, I actually looked at that kit but I decided against it for a few reasons.

I did give their power steering kit a try, it seems well built enough to me, but really it is just some hoses and a reservoir (admittedly with correct fittings and lengths for the Z3 rack). Given the price I would probably not go that route again.

I am leaning towards a dual master cylinder setup for the brakes with a balance bar, so no possible proportioning valve failures and two truly independent circuits. I don't know if I will go with a full pedal box or the bracket/kit massive Lee has for twin MCs. I don't need a ton of extra space but routing 8-AN hose eats up room damn fast, especially when you have fittings everywhere.

Really want to get her up and running though, if I can avoid tackling the brakes for a few more months both my sanity and wallet will thank me, especially since I will probably be moving to a 5-lug swap with different calipers and everything in the future and would probably have to buy another set of masters anyway. Plus I really only want to put the E85 sensor in where the booster is right now, I can just run a union fitting on the lines and tuck it in behind the booster for the time being.

In other news, basically all I got done over the weekend was determining what a correctly spaced Z3 rack looks like and slightly scratching my paint job on the oil pan (that and hours browsing for weird ass adapter fittings). Use the right mounting holes kids, and also don't put the bolts in upside down so you have to lift the engine partially out again to remove them. Future you will thank you:



Think my new rad shows up today... should barely fit... going to be a busy week. Need to get as much done as I can while I have the lift, my Uncle is ripping the roof off the shop after next weekend so it can be raised 3 feet (roof is a bit low, right now with something on the lift the wheels are about 5 feet in the air. Just low enough to be uncomfortable as you repeatedly bang your head. Narrow shop so you can't walk around the lift, have to go under/over).

I also need to start looking for a transmission, or something. The weld on that guy did not hold up, went to loosen the mounts on the tranny (lifting the engine to adjust rack and all that) and the welded tab came right off in my hand. What are some good options? Not against a direct replacement, if I can pick up something used reasonably and then eventually get around to fixing mine and reselling, but I am also open to suggestions for alternatives. This will be a blower powered death wish running E85 someday, not sure how high it will actually be able to go but I am designing for well over 400WHP.

[Lugnuts]

Seriously tempted to delete the brake booster.

Not the same kit you're considering, but I went down the path of deleting the brake booster and installing the kit from...a company we shall refer to as "Base Chays".

Should mention I have Wilwood 4-pot DynaPro on the front and I think at the time I also had the same calipers on the rear.

Long story short, I went back to the stock booster after a couple months. First issue I encountered was the bias adjuster shitting itself. Don't know exactly when. Plunger inside jammed open. Only discovered this after pressure testing, and dismantling it through the course of trouble-shooting. Found an identical model adjuster on fleabay for some hard-to-believe price. Replaced the adjuster, but even after numerous late night brake pad run-ins (BP10, BP20), performance under emergency stopping was still a concern.

Spent a fair bit of time trying to understand brake pressure calculators - worked out all the numbers, ratios, diameters etc etc. Replaced the rears with rebuilt stock calipers - slightly better, but still a leg work out and definitely not my peace-of-mind configuration.

Final nail was the development of "thunk thunk thunk" noises under braking on the new set of rear stock rotors (still boosterless at the time). I think it was consequence of material deposits on the rotors caused by insufficient volume of fluid movement, causing the pads to drag. It's honestly surprising how little lateral run-out is required to make your brakes noisy...

I think the booster-less set up probably would have worked OK with stock calipers front and rear. I just got sufficiently fed up bleeding my brake system for the nth time, I threw in the towel, tore it all out (including my own hard line which I was quite proud of!) and chalked it up to a learning exercise. A larger master cylinder bore to accommodate the larger 4-pot calipers front and rear might have given me the performance I was hoping for ("well yeah, duh" you might be thinking). Guess I shouldn't have trusted the advice of "Base Chay's" sales person...live and learn.

For sale...one lightly used E30 booster delete kit... PM if interested :)