Transmission shifts worse after adding gear oil...

[quikveedb2]

So a little while ago I figured it was a good time to drain & fill my transmission, since I'm not sure when it was done last. I wasn't able to get the drain plug out, which sucks, so I soaked it with penetrating oil and figured I'd let it soak for a while & give it another try. While I had the fill plug out I checked the level and to my dismay, no matter how far in I got my finger there was no gear oil to be found, fml. I had Lucas 80-90 on hand that was what I was planning to replace my (missing) old gear oil with so I started adding, and the tranny took a quart & then some before it was filled to the appropriate level per the manual. Not cool. At that point we gave up on my car, having accomplished enough, & started working on my buddies gti, so I just put the fill plug back in & figured I'll let the penetrating oil do its thing, and I'll give it a good flush & fill later.

Now, primary when it's cold (car & ambient temperature), it's takes more effort to shift than it did prior to adding the fluid. 1st & second are especially tough. When it's warmed up, it's not nearly as noticeable. Is this transmission fucked from being driven with shit for oil for god knows how long? I realize now I shouldn't have assumed it was fine, but when I did the timing belt after first getting the car both it & the water pump looked brand new, so I kind of assumed the PO had been somewhat proactive on maintenance. Guess not. I guess my real concern is where the gear oil went that presumably was in there before my ownership, and if this tranny is gonna die on me now from getting my attention too late.

[jlevie]

It sounds like the transmission has been running with little to no fluid in it for a while, which doesn't bode goo for it's continued operation. You don't say that you drained the oil fluid, but I'd do that now and check for metal in the fluid. If you don't see shiny stuff in what comes out of the transmission, refill it with Redline MTL or ATF-4 and see how it behaves.

[quikveedb2]

You're right, I did not drain the fluid because the plug was seized, that was my original intent. It's been a week or 2 since I first came across this issue & topped off the transmission, I've driven it a handful of times. I'm hoping on my next attempt here in the near future I'll be able to break the plug loose & I'll report back. Isn't ATF typically just used as a flush in manual transmissions? So if I run ATF-4 it should only be for a short period? Is the Redline stuff any different than Lucas, I've always heard that they're pretty interchangeable? As always thanks for the input!

[e30leigh]

im assuming you have a getrag gearbox? they all require atf. believe it or not its the best stuff other then the stupidly over priced bmw fluid.

its got very high shock and impact resistant properties. its very thin obviously so it gets right between all the gears very fast. and its very very good at lubricating. better then most people think.
if you can imagine whats going on in a auto with the hydro's, plates rubbing togething, slipping with all the clutch packs and what not, and the torque converters veins and internal workings. its easy to see what atf is capable of, and its really over engineered for manual gearboxs.

[stamar]

the getrag 260s sold in america have 3 variants.

one takes atf one takes dino 75 80w and one takes synthetic 80 90 ( it has no tag)

make sure you know which one you have then come back here.

The reason is the synchros are each made of a different metal.

dont put atf in your getrag 260 if you dont have the tag for it it will ruin it within 1000 miles.

e30s also have the getrag 240. but your profile says you have a 87 325 is whchi has a getrag 260

We have no idea what you have based on the info you gave us.

It sounds to me like you have the kind that takes regular 80w but nevermind that find the tag.

also make positive you have gl4 oil and not gl5. lucas oil comes in either. it is popular for differentials and not popular for transmissions so I am worried you have the wrong stuff anyway.

[quikveedb2]

Yes, it's an '87 325is. The gear oil I have states that it exceeds service level API GL4, API GL5, or is "backwards compatible", which I understand is may not be the best for synchro life. Can you tell me what tag will indicate ATF, or 75-80?

[stamar]

ok red tag is atf
green tag is rare it is actually specifically mobil 1 synthetic but its also 80 90,
no tag is most common 80w or 75 80.

What most people use is redline mtl, or mt 90 because it covers all three.

You used the wrong stuff with gl5 gear oil.

it is gear oil for the rear differential. In general if it says gear oil its the wrong stuff.
it is more modern gl5 that can claim to be ok for gl4 uses, but its still the wrong stuff.

do you have a red tag, a green tag or no tag on the bottom of your transmission?

Even though it could be worse, it has the hypoid gear additive.

Overall I just have to introduce you to google.


"can I put gl5 gear in my transmission, e30 bmw
"what oil should i put in my manual transmission, e30 bmw"
whats even crazier now is that you put it in and dont have a drain plug.

I want to like back out of this thread and pretend it didnt happen. But I cant stop until you have the right information

I think you need to get a syphon hose to get the gl5 gear oil out of the add hole now, and get some 75w 80w gl4 gear oil into the add hole.

Now get to google, and look up can putting gl5 gear oil in my transmission ruin my transmission?

Yes it can. I THINK you are ok but I wouldnt count on it. In the old days gl5 gear oil ruined manual tranmissions. Its the reason for specific gl4 manual transmission only oil.

gl5 gear I believe has a different weight numbers it goes by. I am totally rooting for you. Read with full and complete comprehension about manual transmission fluid before you take the next step and do it.


edit, every single thread I looked at dealing with lucas gear oil in your transmission links that it has high sulfer content that eats your synchros in time.

It is not ok to leave it in. Get on it. what i would do? Get some auto store gl4 oil and a syphon. it take 2 quarts.

plan on changing it again within 100 miles too to get the rest of the gl5 out of it so dont buy expensive stuff yet ( like redline mtl) by the time youre done with this youre going to be an expert on manual transmission oil and changing it.

Youre also going to have to fix the stuck drain plug soon too, possibly with heat.

[stamar]

this describes the 3 tags and what you need to use

http://www.redlineoil.com/news_article.aspx?id=13

I think this should be stickied.

a getrag 240 which uses atf should also have a red tag. This is the same for all bmw manuals through today even. I believe they have red tags.( but if Im wrong I dont care too much so dont bother telling me)


Also Ill add

that when I bought my m trans fluid i couldnt find my tag.

But I went ahead and got the stuff for the green tag 75-90 full synthetic, or

redline mt 90. Thats because I figured if I didnt know that putting synthetic in one that wants dino causes less damage than dino in one that needs thicker grade synthetic.


but it turns out I have no tag and it takes 80w dino, or redline mtl or gl 4 75 85 etc. common stuff.

and it works great. But I can tell it wants a thinner oil. shifts with some grunt when cold.

I have a feeling based on your story that is the right stuff for you, not the mt 90 but the mtl 70 80 the l in mtl is light its lighter than oem actually but multigrade.

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-Synth...9&sr=1-1-fkmr2

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-50304...5081929&sr=8-1

red tag
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-30104...4&sr=1-3-fkmr0


Your lucas gear oil is fine for the rear diff, unless its a lsd. Do a search for checking to see if you have an lsd. if you syphon it out save it... throw some in the rear differential, its probably due for some now too.

[bastianshaw]

I dont think ATF will ruin a 260 what is your source of that info?

[stamar]

All of the tags are on getrag 260s, but the only ones that can take atf have a red tag on them.

the synchros in the 260s with the green tag, and no tag, cannot take atf because it corrodes the metal the synchros are made of.

The source of that is bmw.

Do you have a source that says that putting atf in a 260 that doesnt have a red tag is ok? Lets start there.

I have definitely never heard that. Ive heard that putting mt in a red tag one is ok. i wouldnt still but many people do.

the answer is a bit more complex than necessary but feel free to google and source and educate us all if you can put atf in a 260 that doesnt have a red tag.

theres 3 different transmissions. theres 2 that dont take it. It would be worse to put it in a green tag than a no tag. modern atf is different than the atf that was around in 1987 so its less dangerous but theres nothing good about using it.

Im not that interested but if anyone wants to do thorough internet research on it go for it.

[nrubenstein]

LOL. Classic Stamar. "I can't be bothered to do any research or cite sources, so I think that you guys should."

While there are fluid compatibility issues, ATF does not eat synchros. Most GL5 gear oils are what eats brass synchros - because they have a ton of sulphur in them.

Anyway, for once, Stamar is mostly right. You put the wrong shit in your trans. Getrag 260s seem pretty happy with Redline MTL, or MT-90.

[stamar]

do you have a source of what atf does in the wrong transmission or you also cant be bothered?
"fluid compatibility issues" means what....? nothing? Any sources to post?

Are there any sources for you to post on your info? just that Im right thats all. Then why post? What info did you just share? That mtl and mt90 is good..... did you also just say atf is good? Or no.... no you didnt. You just wasted everyones time.
The bmw vets dont seem to use atf in their getrag 260s I think we agree. Even with the red tags, or the 5 series. Doesnt seem to last long.

if anyone actually expects me to look things up for them beyond what I just did they need to pull their head out of their butt. It aint happening. my paypal is stamar@gmail.com and as soon as we decide a figure for my time Ill start looking up peoples questions lol.

I dont care so I wont look it up. Buit I encourage you to look up your questions. I had all of my questions answered long ago when I changed my transmission oil. Im pretty sure someone said atf would be bad for a green tag transmission to me somewhere down the line but its enough that its not supposed to be in there I dont care what it does.

I saw on the internet that bmw sometimes comes back with synthetic atf for the ones with no tags. You can verify that yourself on your own time. Just forum talk. But that is different than just atf. Atf has a different viscosity than mt 90 so at best its like putting well its exactly like putting 5/ 30 instead of 15 40

There probably isnt a source that can tell you what it would do. Damage though.

IF there is someone out there doing an experiment with ATF in their getrag 260 with a green or no tag..... I still dont care lol. Dont even tell me about it. Dont put atf in the wrong transmission thats all I needed to know. life is short. I changed my fluid to full synthetic a couple months ago and theres a good chance I never will again so I give two cheetos.

Whoever wants to put atf in the green tag transmissions go for it. When they put the tags on it was serious. Today it might not be so serious, that makes sense. I still dont care.
your welcome for all the correct data.
Anything else anyone wants to know is definitely out there to be learned. I dont think there is anything else relevant. There are 3 types of transmissions dont put the wrong stuff in your transmssion regardless of any forum users opinions on fluid compatibility issues.

Anything you can learn and share with others is worthwhile. I encourage anyone to learn and then have an educated opinion. Make a different thread for it this thread is about the op and putting lucas gear oil in his transmission with no drain plug.

[E30Gus]

Stamar: "Your lucas gear oil is fine for the rear diff, unless its a lsd."

Huh? Please explain. I've been using it in my Diff's for years without any problems.

[nrubenstein]

Stamar: "Your lucas gear oil is fine for the rear diff, unless its a lsd."

Huh? Please explain. I've been using it in my Diff's for years without any problems.

LSDs require friction modifiers in order to work correctly. According to the Lucas web site, it contains the friction modifiers required to work in an LSD. Unless stamar can provide documentary evidence that they lie (he won't, he has never even once substantiated any of his idiotic claims), it's perfectly fine.

Look up his paint and leather restoration threads if you want a further idea of what you're dealing with.

[nrubenstein]

do you have a source of what atf does in the wrong transmission or you also cant be bothered?
"fluid compatibility issues" means what....? nothing? Any sources to post?

Are there any sources for you to post on your info? just that Im right thats all. Then why post? What info did you just share? That mtl and mt90 is good..... did you also just say atf is good? Or no.... no you didnt. You just wasted everyones time.
The bmw vets dont seem to use atf in their getrag 260s I think we agree. Even with the red tags, or the 5 series. Doesnt seem to last long.

if anyone actually expects me to look things up for them beyond what I just did they need to pull their head out of their butt. It aint happening. my paypal is stamar@gmail.com and as soon as we decide a figure for my time Ill start looking up peoples questions lol.

I dont care so I wont look it up. Buit I encourage you to look up your questions. I had all of my questions answered long ago when I changed my transmission oil. Im pretty sure someone said atf would be bad for a green tag transmission to me somewhere down the line but its enough that its not supposed to be in there I dont care what it does.

I saw on the internet that bmw sometimes comes back with synthetic atf for the ones with no tags. You can verify that yourself on your own time. Just forum talk. But that is different than just atf. Atf has a different viscosity than mt 90 so at best its like putting well its exactly like putting 5/ 30 instead of 15 40

There probably isnt a source that can tell you what it would do. Damage though.

IF there is someone out there doing an experiment with ATF in their getrag 260 with a green or no tag..... I still dont care lol. Dont even tell me about it. Dont put atf in the wrong transmission thats all I needed to know. life is short. I changed my fluid to full synthetic a couple months ago and theres a good chance I never will again so I give two cheetos.

Whoever wants to put atf in the green tag transmissions go for it. When they put the tags on it was serious. Today it might not be so serious, that makes sense. I still dont care.
your welcome for all the correct data.
Anything else anyone wants to know is definitely out there to be learned. I dont think there is anything else relevant. There are 3 types of transmissions dont put the wrong stuff in your transmssion regardless of any forum users opinions on fluid compatibility issues.

Anything you can learn and share with others is worthwhile. I encourage anyone to learn and then have an educated opinion. Make a different thread for it this thread is about the op and putting lucas gear oil in his transmission with no drain plug.

100% classic stamar. Make a ridiculous claim, say you can't be bothered to provide a reference for it, and then defend it angrily with a lengthy tract of stream of consciousness writing. Why write so much when you could provide a reference in one line and in less time?