Dogleg Tranny- where to find one?

[bimmer8604]

And WHY exactly do you need a dogleg tranny all of a sudden?

Just bein curious..thats all.

Kyle

[grapedrink]

And WHY exactly do you need a dogleg tranny all of a sudden?

[bimmer8604]

Oh, please



kyle

[UNHCLL]

1) The graph posted above has zero bearing on the topic at-hand. That is for the e30 M3 CR Non-Motorsport Dogleg box. (We wont even get into the various Motorsport boxes...)

2) I've driven dogleg cars, I just had one that I passed on keeping. They came on early e21 323is 6cyl cars, and on some M20 cars...

3) They were not standard on European cars. It was an option.

4) It HAS synchros.

5) Its not a Crash box.

6) Expect to pay between $1800-2800 for a decent (sub 150k mile) used dogleg.

7) Direct bolt up to M20 block.

8) Close Ratio simply means, as stated by Pasha, that the gears are not spaced out as much. Thus, allowing you to shift, while staying in the powerband.

9) You will need a 3.25 or 3.46 rear end. 3.73 or 4.10 will drive you nuts. 1st gear will be useless.

10) You're buying this for bling, for your alleged super awesome make me a full race driver "track car"???? You've done how many DE's??? Spend the money on schools, not the car.

[bimmer8604]

10) You're buying this for bling, for your alleged super awesome make me a full race driver "track car"???? You've done how many DE's??? Spend the money on schools, not the car.

Not neccissarily.

But thankyou for all the other information. I appreciate it.

Kyle

[oh2fly]

Having owned and driven several dog leg boxes, here are my 02 cents. Fifth gear is 1:1 not overdrive. All of the gears are spaced closer to each other than a normal o/d box. The advantage is that when you shift, the rpms don't drop 1800-2000, but 1300 to 1500 depending on gearing. At a track day, this is significant. You are always in the power band. Makes for better lap times and bigger smiles. They do have syncros, without question. e21 323is and e30 323is had them as optional from the factory. Those little 2.3 engines needed to rev to be fast and had no low end torque. So, you put them together with a tranny that keeps the revs up and the owners are thrilled.

[bimmer8604]

Okay, finally, somebody with a real answer. I was just under the impression that most Doglegs were syncroless, but you clearified it for me. I guess it varys manufacturer to manufacturer.

THanks for the informaion!

Kyle

[mikeedler]

My euro M3 has a "dog leg" trans in it. the trans is ALOT stronger "feeling" than any normal M20 trans. I am running a 3.64 read diff ratio-- but it is an M3 and i can pull to 8500 no problem. If you want to waste money, get a six speed-- they mount right up, just need a driveshaft, and you will get more "performance from that. The dog-leg is "cool" to me, but in all honesty, on the street its bull**it. the 1st to 2nd shift"which on the streets is very important for stoplight launches" sucks, and takes some skill.-- but 4th to 5th on the autobahn is nice and easy. and yes, the parts are NLA-- you gotta get the whole thing from BMW.
ohh, and by the way, it definately doesnt have straight cut gears. its just as quite as and M20 trans. ---thank god---
my buddies mini cooper has straight cut gears, and the coolness wears off after your head starts pounding after 15 min. from the noise!

[bimmer8604]

Mike, thanks for even more info! I just like learning some new things, and stuff like this interests me.

Kyle

[grapedrink]

Okay, finally, somebody with a real answer.

We answerd your question on the 1st page. You were just stubborn and did not accept it.

[bimmer8604]

yes, but most of the posts were unclear and unstructured.
Most just posting shit and not explaining. now that i have had the information explained, i understand it.



Kyle

[golde30]

there was an old 6er with a dogleg tranny at the bone yard a couple weeks ago. it shifter through the gears fine, and i was gonna come back for it with more tools, but they sent the car off to the crusher before i got around to it. oh well...

[bimmer8604]

Dang, that blows.

Kyle

[erik325i]

there was an old 6er with a dogleg tranny at the bone yard a couple weeks ago. it shifter through the gears fine, and i was gonna come back for it with more tools, but they sent the car off to the crusher before i got around to it. oh well...

Which yard was that?

[Madhatter]

They also dont use syncros. They essentially just slam into place, rather than a gradual transition. They have like 5 squares on the side of the gears that lock into eachother like a puzzle to lock in the gears. Thats why when you watch videos of racecars equipped with a dogleg they shift much louder than normal cars. I think they also use straightcut gears rather than helical cut gears.

Kyle

man, you guys have no idea do you, ive never seen so many experts posting such misinformed information.

Dont use syncro's? ahh, yes they do. Let me explain something to you.

You have dog leg transmissions. These simply refer to transmissions with a flipped pattern to allow straight shifting between 2 and 3. They generally run syncro's and bearings, the shafts are usually the same, the difference is the gears are grouped differently (in this case, you will find 5th located on the inputshaft) and operated from the same shift fork. The idea of a dog leg shift pattern was simply to cut down on shift times between 2nd and 3rd gears (as you can gather, it had a motorsport focus). The close ratio boxes in bmws are found in this category.

You have "crash boxes", these are gearboxes which dont have syncro's and are commonly the domain of racing and/or vintage cars. What people dont understand is crash boxes do not have to have the dog leg shift pattern, they can be normal shift pattern gearboxes which simply dont have syncro's designed to mesh the dog teeth. These are gearboxes in which the only way to change gears is to match rotating speeds on shafts so gears will mesh, they get the name crash boxes because they are generally pretty rough with them and slam them into gears. BMW close ratio gearboxes do not fall into this category.

1. Dog leg boxes do not have to be syncroless gearboxes. The name simply refers to the shift pattern.
2. Crash boxes do not have to have the dog leg shift pattern.
3. Crash boxes suffer high wear rates and are far too rough for normal operation within a passenger car.
4. The bmw close ratio box is not a crash box.
5. The bmw close ratio box uses syncro's.
6. Dog leg boxes do not have to contain close ratio gearsets.
7. BMW (well, getrag) make both dogleg and conventional shift pattern close ratio gearboxes.
8. Aside from other vehicles, in the E30 range you will find them coupled with M3's or european spec 325is vehicles like those delivered to australia.

Anyone else who tells you otherwise has no idea what they are talking about. Bimmer8604, for someone who claims to have pulled appart gearboxes, you rely on what people tell you far too much.

Ohh, just a little bit of info, it was the E21 320iS which had the dogleg as part of the package, you generally wont find them in a 323i.