The semi-Comprehensive M60b40 into E30 swap Q&A

[mkcman17]

i searched forever to finally find a 6spd, but i'm getting discouraged by the increased difficulty of adding that extra gear.

[Mr Two]

As we add valid data it should be added into the OP, so we can have it all in one spot.

[Jonsku]

I thought he OP wanted a comprehensive Q&A on the swap, but it seems like this thread has started to meander into the realm of discussion/re-hash and opinion.

Where are we going with this? I ask, because I was about to reply to a bunch of opinion, but didn't want to further decrease the signal-to-noise ratio.

-Bruce

As the swap is pretty complicated and there're many, many solutions to each problem it's good that all the different options people have used are brought out. Thus, the most suitable solutions to each swap can be used.

So please, feel free to bring out your comments also ;)

[Jean]

Bruce - I think the more FACTUAL data the better :)

[BruceBe]

What is the goal of this thread?

I thought he OP wanted a comprehensive Q&A on the swap, but it seems like this thread has started to meander into the realm of discussion/re-hash and opinion.

Where are we going with this? I ask, because I was about to reply to a bunch of opinion, but didn't want to further decrease the signal-to-noise ratio.

-Bruce

[Jonsku]

Anyone ever checked out this swap tutorial:

http://www.rtsauto.com/e30-bmw-m62-v8-swap-3/

It looks pretty detailed, especially on the wiring.

That's direct translation from the www.e30.de write-up which I mentioned earlier..

[The Dark Side of Will]

Anyone ever checked out this swap tutorial:

http://www.rtsauto.com/e30-bmw-m62-v8-swap-3/

It looks pretty detailed, especially on the wiring.

[Jonsku]

Couple of comments, as I've done the swap myself couple of years ago and at the moment I'm in middle of E30 V8 automat - project.. (in case interested, here's a overview-video of my swap; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS2rkSIIz2s)

Yes, it's been done to nauseum over in the U.K...

Let's not forget mainland Europe and Scandinavia! ;)


www.e30.de / "340i" gives you full overview of the swap with couple of full write-ups of the project. Worth checking out, there're also the pinouts of most common donors & E30 models..

3. Cooling- E36M3 or Z3M radiator drops in, Z3M is the preference, since it's 3 row.

Very powerfull fan is required with those radiators, E36 M3 / E28 radiators are not sufficient on hot days (+30c).
Other options;
-E34 stock radiator, requires notches to frame rails, no big deal.
-Custom radiator, best option to avoid the oil-filter housing problem by locating the upper water hose 1/3 off the end of the radiator.

Brake Booster relocate
The most challenging part one could argue is the brake booster, I find the easiest way is to just use a brake booster from a e32/e34, and to mount it behind the left headlight (via welding) and extend the push rod.

I'm very sceptical on the endurance of a "angled pushrod". Much better option would be to use bearings and "offset-shaft" to keep the forces straight.

The 280mm clutch + flywheel setup they offer shouldn't be needed with an NA M6X + e30 weight.

No sense in using the "super-rare" and oversized 280mm clutch, makes your replacement part searching very hard.

Best way is to source a flywheel with 240mm clutch as there're many, many aftermarket clutches of that size.

I didn't include new timing chains as I'm fairly certain the old ones should be fine in whatever I end up getting. Timing chain guides and tensioners add up fast.

... but on the other hand even a half-tooth difference in lenght of the timing-chain can easily make up to 20hp difference in output power as the timing is off.
The timing chains flex with time, especially the one-row chains on M62, and they are a must-replacement.
No idea to start saving with timing chain and tensioners, renew them when you're there!

Can you lighten the stock flywheel?

Basically not, it's a twin-mass flywheel so not much to be done there.

H31 Hydro-boost setup (yet to see that successfully installed).

Those have been used many times in Sweden / Germany along with V8 / V12 (and even M30) swaps so it's not a big deal. Proven old technology, though a bit too heavy and complicated to my liking. Remote setup for street-cars and pedalbox for track-cars would be my choice.

I guess the remote booster will have to be it, then. Can anyone comment on brake feel? I have a fairly stiff pedal right now, and I kinda prefer it that way.

You can custom-make it as you like by variating the "force-arms" on the linkage and stiffen it up as you like. Using the stock E34 force-arms it feels pretty much like stock E30 325 brakes.
Of course the choosen brake calipers affect on this also.





.. and let the talk go on.

[Mr Two]

I guess the remote booster will have to be it, then. Can anyone comment on brake feel? I have a fairly stiff pedal right now, and I kinda prefer it that way.

[BruceBe]

Thanks Bruce.

Does anyone have any pictures of clearance to the stock brake booster opening in the firewall? Is there enough room to mount a wilwood master cyl. there?

Not a chance. You have about 2.5" to the valve cover on a good day. Three options exist: 1) remote master/booster a la 5-series; 2) in-cockpit booster -less MC's; 3) H31 Hydro-boost setup (yet to see that successfully installed).

-Bruce

[george graves]

sub'ed

[george graves]

Can you lighten the stock flywheel?

[Mr Two]

Thanks Bruce.

Does anyone have any pictures of clearance to the stock brake booster opening in the firewall? Is there enough room to mount a wilwood master cyl. there?

[FunfGan]

i'll be doing this swap soon, so I'll need some help but I'm fully documenting the build.

[BruceBe]

Retaining speed-signal - non-stock instrument cluster

For those not using a stock dash, here is some info to make sure the DME is getting a required speed signal from the diff:

The diff uses a reed switch (magnetically driven switch), rather than an inductive pickup or hall sensor. So, the switch opens/closes as the teeth of the reluctor (9) pass by the switch mounted on the diff. If you check out an e30/e34/e32 ETM manual, you will see that the instrument cluster is providing power, and also providing a path back to ground. However, it is providing power through a pull-up resistor, of unspecified resistance. The R-value of the resistor in this case is determined by the amount of current that one would prefer (or prefer not) to sink at the DME. So, choosing a relatively high pull-up (3.3 kilo-ohm) should only cause about 4mA of current to flow. By limiting charge flow, the waveform will be better, especially as switching times (higher speed) get short.

Anyhow, to create your circuit, run 12-volts through a 3.3Kohm resistor, then to the diff (red/brown on e30), and then connect the other (brown) wire coming off the diff to ground. Run another wire from the diff side of the resistor to your speed input at the DME (or pin 14 of the X20 connector, which would also be pin 14 on the C101/e30 side of the world). Then enjoy full-RPM range in all gears.