M60B40 Heads on M62B44 Block

[The Dark Side of Will]

If it jumped timing, there's a significant chance for piston-to-valve contact.

Also, what was wrong with the timing drive that allowed it to jump timing?

[iamsam]

If it jumped timing, there's a significant chance for piston-to-valve contact.

Also, what was wrong with the timing drive that allowed it to jump timing?

read my above post, timing guide shattered, releasing tension. Somehow that also made the tensioner thread itself out and fall out, giving up any hope of remaining tension.

Most likely the valves are shot.

Therefore, my question remains: Can M60B40 upper end stuff be put on? Would I have to run a NV E39 ECU?

[bmwmech1]

read my above post, timing guide shattered, releasing tension. Somehow that also made the tensioner thread itself out and fall out, giving up any hope of remaining tension.

Most likely the valves are shot.

Therefore, my question remains: Can M60B40 upper end stuff be put on? Would I have to run a NV E39 ECU?

You would need to change a ton of stuff over to make it work... Heads, timing gear, E38/E39 NV harness, oil drainback tube, PCV plate, throttle body, knock sensors, might as well swap to the better B40 intake, E38/E39 NV DME and an E38/E39 NV gas pedal setup, since the B44TU is throttle-by-wire. Might be a bigger project than what you're imagining. I had a set of perfectly fine TU heads I could have sold you, but I scrapped them a couple of months ago. Got tired of them taking up space.:( I'd get a good set of TU heads, new gaskets and guides and chains and be done with it personally...

Garey

[iamsam]

^^ Good solid advice there. However, why would you need an entire NV harness? What does the NV harness have on it that the vanos harness doesn't have?

[bmwmech1]

^^ Good solid advice there. However, why would you need an entire NV harness? What does the NV harness have on it that the vanos harness doesn't have?

The positions of some sensors are different, IE the crank sensor is the big one, plus some of the connectors are entirely different, IE the knock sensors and MAF, plus the TU harness has the connectors for the VANOS solenoids and also for the eelctronic throttle. Those are a few off the top of my head, I'm sure there are a few more. Just easier to swap the harness, than to try and band-aid the original one to make it work...

Garey

[Jean]

Exactly, it's more work and you'll be chasing little problems for weeks if not months.. not worth it imho.

[iamsam]

Might be a bigger project than what you're imagining.

Garey

I dunno, I am already imagining a pretty big project. For both options, I will be essentially stripping everything off the top and front of the engine down to the block, the only additional work w/ the B40 stuff is pulling/swapping the t-chain gears, swapping wiring harness, rigging throttle, etc, which doesn't sound so bad.

A little background, I sound like a noob online, but I have done motor swaps, auto-to-manual conversions, countless suspensions, subframe overhauls, etc, I have a garage, nearly all the tools I need, compressor, welder, etc. (not that i'll need a welder)

Exactly, it's more work and you'll be chasing little problems for weeks if not months.. not worth it imho.

Rather that than screwing with VANOS for years, and come out w/ a few extra horses on top...

[Jean]

Just get a M62B44 not M62TU, problem solved.

[325ix]

I have a 97 540i, obviously still the NV engine and with obdII. So would the M60 head swap be easy on this chassis? Seeing that it has the NV harness and DME.

[iamsam]

Just get a M62B44 not M62TU, problem solved.

This is absolutely a possibility, if one pops up.

Anyway, any progress/info on the frankenbuild? We need dyno numbers!!!

[iamsam]

Just get a M62B44 not M62TU, problem solved.

This is absolutely a possibility, if one pops up.

Anyway, any progress/info on the frankenbuild? We need dyno numbers!!!

also, can you bring heads/block to get cleaned w/o removing valves, cams, pistons, etc?

EDIT: R3V is screwing with my head. i must have tried to edit my post above three times, and then a new post pops up as a result.....

[Jean]

Yeah I'll have some updates soon....thats the plan haha.

[JGood]

Bumping this up. I picked up an m62b44 to build an m60b44.

Can anyone confirm a 0.0 deck clearance and 0.0 piston top volume for both the m60 and m62? I'll be tearing both engines apart and can confirm then, but would love to have everything figured out and parts ordered prior to doing so.

If so, then the numbers I get when reverse-calculating for combustion chamber volume are as follows:

m60b40:
Bore: 3.504"
Stroke: 3.150"
Head gasket thickness: .0685"
Deck clearance: 0.0
Piston top volume: 0.0
Compression ratio: 10:1
Combustion chamber volume: 44.4834 cc


M62b44:
Bore: 3.622"
Stroke: 3.256"
Head gasket thickness: .0685"
Deck clearance: 0.0
Piston top volume: 0.0
Compression ratio: 10:1
Combustion chamber volume: 49.5184 cc


M60B44 hybrid engine:
Bore: 3.622"
Stroke: 3.256"
Head gasket thickness: .0685"
Deck clearance: 0.0
Piston top volume: 0.0
Combustion chamber volume: 44.4834 cc

Which means the compression ratio would be: 10.81:1

I see that BMW offers a thicker m62 head gasket. Factory is 1.74mm, and they offer a +.3mm (2.04mm, 0.0803") version.

That would put the compression ratio at 10.47:1


Thoughts?


Also, there appears to be two versions of the m62 head gasket. 9/97 is the cutoff date. Looking at ECS Tuning's pictures of each gasket, the post-9/97 gasket appears to be MLS. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Pre-9/97:

http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/42501_x800.jpg

Post-9/97

http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/294249_x800.jpg

I'm sure Cometic could make a custom MLS, to get whatever compression ratio you want. Could probably even get them to make one to include the timing cover portion like the m60 as well. I will call them Monday.

EDIT:
One other point of interest is that the m62b44tu pistons have valve reliefs, but the engine apparently still maintains the 10.0:1 compression ratio. Not sure what to make of that?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Bumping this up. I picked up an m62b44 to build an m60b44.

Can anyone confirm a 0.0 deck clearance and 0.0 piston top volume for both the m60 and m62? I'll be tearing both engines apart and can confirm then, but would love to have everything figured out and parts ordered prior to doing so.

I think you'll need to get those numbers yourself. Please post when you do.

I'm pretty sure the M60/M62 pistons have valve reliefs, so the net volume is almost certainly not zero.
Edit: M62 piston photo here: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=313637

Which means the compression ratio would be: 10.81:1

Here's how I'd do it:
The M60 has 10:1 compression.
This means that there are 9 units of volume in the cylinder and 1 left over at TDC.
Increasing displacement by 10% means that there are 9.9 units of volume in the cylinder and 1 left over, so the compression ratio would be 10.9:1. It'll deviate from that a little bit because M62 pistons are matched with M60 chambers, but 10.8-10.9 is a good estimate.

This is a safe compression ratio, as long as you stick to premium fuel only. I'm running my Cadillac Northstar at 11.5 and it does fine on 93 octane, with worse chambers than an M60. Lots of LS1's run compression ratios in the mid-high 11's on the street.

I see that BMW offers a thicker m62 head gasket. Factory is 1.74mm, and they offer a +.3mm (2.04mm, 0.0803") version.

That would put the compression ratio at 10.47:1

I'd go for the gasket that put the piston to head clearance between .035 and .045, regardless of what compression ratio results, even if it meant getting made to order gaskets from Cometic.

Also, there appears to be two versions of the m62 head gasket. 9/97 is the cutoff date. Looking at ECS Tuning's pictures of each gasket, the post-9/97 gasket appears to be MLS. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Pre-9/97:
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/42501_x800.jpg

Fiber

Post-9/97
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/294249_x800.jpg

MLS

I'm sure Cometic could make a custom MLS, to get whatever compression ratio you want. Could probably even get them to make one to include the timing cover portion like the m60 as well. I will call them Monday.

They just might... a "proper" head gasket for the M60B44 Frankenmotor would be nice.

[JGood]

The m60 and m62 non vanos are flat top pistons. The m62tu have reliefs. I verified this by googling and ebaying. I'm using a non vanos block.

What do you mean by head clearance of .035-.045? What is that a measurement of?