Help! S62b49 Oil-pump & Vanos question.

[Engdahl]

Hi there!

Im from sweden and new here, and hopfully you guys can help me!

I have searched for information on the Vanos system and the G lubrication system all over the web and in forums, but cant find what im looking for.

The thing is, that I am doing a S62 convertion, and have run into some problems :P

First, the Vanos system. We are going for stand alone EM and are therefore deleting the Vanos system.

The first questions: how do I go about setting the valve timing when the Vanos is done? We will make our own block of kits. Could i use the standard setting? Or do i need to messure valve lift? If so, what values should i go for :P

Second question: How much power (torque) will be lost due to removing the vanos system?

3rd question: How is the vanos system fed by oil? I understand that the units have their own pressure pumps, but what feed lines needs to be plugged?

4th: Can cam gears possibly be used from any other V8 engine? M60, M62?
Can the breast plates for the heads be used from a M62 for ex?


And then we wonder about the oil pump system.

What will happen if you just run the engine with the standard pump, and never acctivate the G force solenoids? How much trashing around can it take with the system disabled and not get oil starvation?

And what are the alternatives if this is not a good idea?

The car will be used for drifting, not hard-core cornering, I do not belive we will exceed 1g latteral force.


Thanks in advance for any help in these questions!

And excuse my bad english, im swedish :P

And, oh, please dont tell me to searh the forum, because ive done that and found noting concrete! But please do direkt me to where i can find the answers it they allready are posted here!

[nando]

if you just tuned the stock DME all these issues would go away :p

I *think* the pumps will still work fine without servotronic. basically it alters the pickup location based on acceleration data. it would just always be in the "neutral" state with it disconnected.

[Engdahl]

if you just tuned the stock DME all these issues would go away :p

I *think* the pumps will still work fine without servotronic. basically it alters the pickup location based on acceleration data. it would just always be in the "neutral" state with it disconnected.

Yes, but i read that the stock DME unit have been extensivly integrated with the other systems, and will be difficult to use in a nother car.

In any case; I do not have the stock DME unit :( And the engine will be turbo-charged :)

The engine have been salvaged from a burnt out M5, so the Vanos units are damaged anyway.

That is what i think also about the pump, just want to make sure :P
Will it be even worse than an standard M62 because of one drain pipe per head is now plugged?

[nando]

it's not really that hard to program, but if you don't have it that's a moot point.

what's your plan? VEMS might be a good choice given your location.

[Jonsku]

Contact tino @ e30.de, he can code the DME so that it works in E30 without any problems. On the top you'll get Alpha N - mapping, simplifying the installation and giving you slightly more power ;)

[The Dark Side of Will]

The engine have been salvaged from a burnt out M5, so the Vanos units are damaged anyway.

If the VANOS units were damaged by the fire, the rest of the engine is likely trashed anyway, as the aluminum probably got too hot and ruined the temper/heat treatment on the casting.

[Engdahl]

I am accualy going to run VEMS, I am one of the few in sweden that import and sell Vems hardware ;) And since I am a retailer, a part of the point in so promote VEMS systems, so the DME unit was never really an option :P More expensive and not the tuning possibilitys we need. (EGT comtrol, Launch, Boostcontrol) Oh and the fakt that it will be turbocharged in the future. I.e its a driftcar, aftermarket EM system is a must :P

The Engine did not get that hot, all seals, orings etc were not damaged. The wiring for the vanos system, and the external piping were however melted.

The Vanos might accualy be working if you were to change the wiring, but since we will be running VEMS and no one knows how to tune with analog Vanos. (Not around here anyways) I do my own tuning/mapping. And ofcourse if will be Alpha-N.

So, we still havent got the answers we're looking for, please help!

The biggest problem is the valve-timing as of now. Trial&error approach does not really feel like an option. I need at least some valve-lift in TDC for both Cams as a benchmark.

[nando]

sweet! VEMS is really nice.

[M3 euro ltw]

Vanos settings and scavenging

I would try and find someone with a stock E39 M5 and get an affordable device to read the cam position as you're driving.

Drive the car at an RPM whose cam setting you'd like to duplicate and lock in, and read it off the data stream.

The cams are most likely optimised for higher rpm, and retarded before reaching that rpm, but that is a generality, and I'm not sure its correct.

You might consider calling Shrick up or cat-cam and seeing what they suggest for timing with locked vanos and their aftermarket cam selections, that might be a starting place for free advice.

For a drift car with high G's, I'd consider dry sumping to avoid the issues of starvation. You could get a salvage M60 pan, and baffle it well, and run a modified dry sump system, just a two stage affair and keep the oil under the engine to save on plumbing expense and complexity.

There is not a lot of information on oil flow and plumbing on the internet for these engines. Careful examination of your engine will yield the answers I suspect for oil supply to the vanos system and where to plug it, but be careful, it could be a shared supply to the timing chain too.

Since you won't run AC, there is space for a small external two stage dry sump pump there.

Also, since you plan on using FI and heat management is always important, you may want to consider removing and plugging the factory heat exhanger in the valley to trade off for a conventional oil cooler. Many of the supercharged S62 do this to avoid heat in the valley near the intakes.

The M5 forum has a lot of technical experience, and there may be people with better knowledge of the plumbing. Certainly if anyone at Evolve is feeling friendly, they can answer your specifics.

Good luck, post up pix

[The Dark Side of Will]

I was going to suggest www.m5board.com for tech info, but he beat me to it.