2 choices what are your opinions

[Rob]

if your worried about the costs........

[rwh11385]

[Your logic is retarded. Turbo M20's have been done over and over again, I would say more often than S50 swaps. And S50 has higher potential than an M20, given that both have FI.

Your mom is retarded.

On Bf.c, people we having difficulty naming 5 people they knew of online with turbo m20s.
There are Todd, Matt325is, E30godz, Diego, Stefan, Bimmerjim, ?

All I am saying is that M50/S50 has become pretty common, and even if not many of the users on here have S50s, shops have been producing them. When you see one, it's cool, but not as novel anymore.

And your logic is shot. How is someone going to afford to have both S50 and FI??? :roll:

[Digitalwave]

How is someone going to afford to build a proper stroker, stand alone management, and FI to make an M20 that could kill all the potential than an S50 has?

And I don't know if you realize this, but people don't do M/S50 swaps to be unique. They do it because its a far superior engine, with a lot more capabilites.

[rwh11385]

There is a plus and a negative for being done time and again.....a lot of problems get answered and worked out. Matt and people who had paid attention to his progress noted that he ran into a lot of issues and problems.

So therefore being common and repeated a lot would be a plus, as far as dealing with the car.

Now when someone does all the thinking for you, and R&D = TCD, turboing might not be anymore troublesome than a S50 swap.

I was attempting to allude to how the S50 swap has been done, and documented, and repeated. Hell, look at all the threads with problem seeking advice while doing the swap. There wouldn't be as strong as a backing with only a few people with turbo m20s, now would there be???

Of course, I suspect a little with a driver whose former car was a 240 with a rb engine.....he might want to be a little unique....so I added that last part in. Shouldn't have though, it threw your panties in a twist.

- - - -

What about stand alone, stroker, etc? All that isn't needed to beat a S50.

TCD =

Car was running 14.5psi Intercooled and made 290rwhp @ 5800rpm and 300rwtq @ 4200rpm. Car is running beautifully. A little more tinkering and we should be able to get to 16/17psi and about 315rwhp.

I think you would be hardpressed to find those #'s from a NA S50. Stu's was pretty balls out and he had 225rwhp, correct?

I don't think a M20B25 would need to be "rebuild for FI", Todd seemed to have good enough success with the mileaged stocker engine. And the compression ratio is already pretty good for FI.

Like I recommended, buy an 325i, late model or not.....and throw the TCD on that. Or have the S50 put in. (Then sell your eta)

[Rob]

damn dude, save the essays for Freshman english

[Alex Mc]

24-valve = The very definition of reliability, and the power and smoothness is unmatched

Turbo M20 = Regardless of how many people are running them, reliability will never be there, and you'll still be adjusting valves, changing timing belts, and working on a PITA motor.

Go 24-valve

[Pat W]

thanks now im gonna need to find out how hard the swap is gonna be im gonna talk to a mechanic and talk to him and see if hes interested in the swap...where can i get the CD about the swap i think its called ORCA(sp) i dont know does that CD go over the swap play by play?

[rwh11385]

Need M50 Info......[search] (and there are MORE, many more threads than this. This list is from last December. Check the comprehensive DOHC swap thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9714 )

http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2129

I am doing the s50 swap in the spring, you will definetly need zionsvilleautosport.com CD!It has a lot of usefull info about teh swap as well as the list of parts that you will need

LIES

Sure it is helpful and a great resource for some (http://www.e30m50.com recommends it) but many people do not find it necessary.

- - - - - -

Rede30, Welcome to R3V! :D

Not to talk down to the noob, but this topic has been beaten to death. The search tool is sometimes difficult to bring up good results, so I'll help you out:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=224 M50 swap

http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=892 Stroker kit or e36 swap?
http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=874 Question for M50/S50 Swappers
http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=631 s52 swap quesetions,
http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=411 m50 swap: Vanos vs. Non-V?
http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=274 resurrecting the turbo M50 thread (pic request)
http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=275 any one with the M50 conversion

and that's just some of the threads about M50/S50 swaps on this forum. Amazing, isn't it? :P

Anyway, here are a couple good sites to look at:

http://www.lukasbmw.com he's done it, and he even has the cost of all parts. All the tips, pros and cons. Look in modification articles -> M50 swap.
http://www.e30m50.com is a great source, and it follows one boys progress on doing the swap himself

Pete McHenry
Precision Performance
Winston-Salem, NC
910-761-0643

My dads # is (336) 761-0643.

The Zionsville CD is a generic swap kit. It is a "universal" kit for all E30's, and there are a lot of factors that need considering in different model E30's that arn't covered in the swap CD. Examples: wiring info is different on almost every E30; 84-85 318, 84 325e, 85-87 325e, 88 325e, 87 325i, 88-91 325i, '91 318is.

The M50 swap is the same as the S50, as the engine externally are the same. So the process will be the same, the results......very different,

Stu's father is one of the premier BMW engine rebuilders in the nation. He pioneered the swap. He can be very helpful, to say the least. He put an OBD-1 3.2L S50 in Stu's 318is. 8)

Lukas is a member he and has a M50 swap.
Trent is a mod here and has a M50 with M3 cams.
Ryan Stewart is looking at a S50 swap as well.

Here is a BF.c thread about the swap. BF.c is a good forum, but not nearly as technically knowledgable on the whole as R3V:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=161314 E36 M3 engine in E30...difficult?

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=cc44b10ffe670c6e87c97d0e0fc7b1d5&threadid=161575

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=154981 e30 m50 swap

Good luck with the swap!

The Zionsville Project ORCA CD is ABSOLUTE SHIT.

The pictures are horrible, and as a resource on the whole its just worthless.

This website has all the major info you need, and its FREE. http://www.akgmotorsport.com/

is there are a site or link on a wring diagram or pics for a wiring harness and all other electrical stuff.

thanks

Andre, here is a wiring pin 2 pin chart on the site Jordan linked to. 8) That site is very good for people interested in the swap. http://www.akgmotorsport.com/usm50swap.html
http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e30convpins.html = the pin chart.

- - - -

http://www.theeurodepot.com/e30m50.html - -e30 M50/S50/S52 Conversion Information: Declassified Officially gone are the days of overpriced information regarding this swap!!!This page has just been started and not yet completed. But it covers engine, radiator, and transmission.

http://www.terrysaytherauto.com/M50conversions.htm - M50 engines into E30 chassis WOW! - - Terry's BMW shop's ad for M50 swaps.....with prices ($3000 labor)
http://www.terrysaytherauto.com/E30-S52Conversion.htm - Not Enough Power- E30 S52 Conversion - - An article on putting the S52 in the E30 M3

http://www.lukasbmw.com/m50_swap_advice.htm direct link to Luka's M50 page

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/index.asp A great place to find engines and other parts, look in their free classifieds. Also, someone on this forum with an OBD-I S52 in his M3 says that Turner's people were very helpful in helping him through the swap.

The Zionsville Autosport CD may not be worth getting, but taking at look at their E30 Twin Cam conversion parts packages are!

http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/store/shop.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=6134&Category_Code=ETCK

http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/s...gory_Code=TCEM - Engine Mounting parts kit.
These kits are made to sell at outrageous prices. No one should pay $3,300 for an M50! Add $3200 for the S52 from them! But their package can help to show what parts are needed.

Altavista time! Use babelfish translation to read the German
http://www.e30.de has a walkthrough of the E30 24V swap, as well as the M30.

http://www.e30.de/m50.htm

Finally, rede30, http://www.baye30.net/ is important for you. R3V is a great forum, but BayE30 will offer you more regional and local help. You could find the ideal shop to advise you or local salvage yard, etc.

Engine swap cost and feasiblity

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143878

Rebuild the M42 or throw in an M/S50.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162810&highlight=m50

e30 m50 swap

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154981&highlight=m50

E36 Engine Swaps...How do they handle??

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143111&highlight=m50

finally ran the e30 s50 turbo in the 1/4

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137019&highlight=m50

- Revo86 , 400hp motor and 225's in the rear, 12.8@112, stock compression, 6psi, smt-6

what is needed, e36 2.5 engine into e30

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131276&highlight=m50

Parts list for M50 swap?

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121657&highlight=m50

- - chuck90m3 likes to help everyone with info about the swap

[Pat W]

thanks... :D

[Wes325]

jesus

[rwh11385]

jesus

think of all the new M50 threads in the last 11 months!

Jdm, just check the engine swap section.

[raoke]

I see it easier to do a s50 swap rather than preparing the m20 for fi. it seems like a simplier task and you wouldnt have to worry about much more maintainence.
however, i believe that an entire engine swap would not be as pure as turboing the m20.
in a race, i wouldnt feel as if my e30 ripped up some car, but it was only the s50 doing its thing. you can still argue that m20 turbo is not much difference as its the turbo helping the e30 out- yet in a car over a decade old... thats a victory to me.

[Kilomph]

Hey rwh11385, none of these links worked...



Engine swap cost and feasiblity

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143878

Rebuild the M42 or throw in an M/S50.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162810&highlight=m50

e30 m50 swap

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154981&highlight=m50

E36 Engine Swaps...How do they handle??

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143111&highlight=m50

finally ran the e30 s50 turbo in the 1/4

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137019&highlight=m50

- Revo86 , 400hp motor and 225's in the rear, 12.8@112, stock compression, 6psi, smt-6

what is needed, e36 2.5 engine into e30

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131276&highlight=m50

Parts list for M50 swap?

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121657&highlight=m50

- - chuck90m3 likes to help everyone with info about the swap

Just something wrong with the board today?

[Jarvis]

Re: 2 choices what are your opinions

2) buy a I motor give it to a shop have them build it for FI then get the TCD kit...i have already talked to tod about this....

I vote TCD kit. Put in a 3.25LSD diff to solve most traction issues, and you also get longer gearing for being able to drive off-boost at higher highway speeds = still pretty good gas mileage.

[Matt86es]

But how much more does an S50 weigh than an FI M20? If you're doing anything other than dragracing(buy a chevy for that) than the weight distribution is just as important as power in an E30 or any serious sporting car.