ALRIGHT, i got bit by the M50 bug again.

[Brian 89 325i]

OK i *THINK* ive finally decided on the M50 Swap. Ive got some more questions.

Can i use my driveshaft if i use the E36 trans? Or do i need an M3 shaft?
Can i only use the 320i brake booster? And can i fit the 25mm MC on it?
What kind of diff should I use?
Will the stock exhaust manifolds clear fine? Can i use the rear part of the existing E30 exhaust? When i freshen up the M50 should i just get an Upper and lower gasket set and the regular tune up stuff?
Can i use my (88-91) cooling hoses? What else will i need to modify that no one really talks about? Also if someone has a site with more info thanks.

Brian

P.S. Sorry this topic is beat to death.

[rwh11385]

Re: ALRIGHT, i got bit by the M50 bug again.

OK i *THINK* ive finally decided on the M50 Swap. Ive got some more questions.

Can i use my driveshaft if i use the E36 trans? Or do i need an M3 shaft?
Can i only use the 320i brake booster? And can i fit the 25mm MC on it?
What kind of diff should I use?
Will the stock exhaust manifolds clear fine? Can i use the rear part of the existing E30 exhaust? When i freshen up the M50 should i just get an Upper and lower gasket set and the regular tune up stuff?
Can i use my (88-91) cooling hoses? What else will i need to modify that no one really talks about? Also if someone has a site with more info thanks.

Brian

P.S. Sorry this topic is beat to death.

I thought you were thinking about a 2.7i or 2.8i????

Anyway, from my readin and researchin when I had the bug:

You must the the E30 M3 driveshaft (or possibly an E36 one) with the E36 tranny.
The Getrag 260 (our stock) tranny will also work, at a 10degree angle, and uses the stock driveshaft.
No comment on brake booster.
Eric Lukas swapped his 4.10LS he was using with his M20 back for a 3.73LS when his M50 when in. With the added torque, a shorter drive ratio isn't needed.
The stock headers will hit the ?control arms? and will needed to be bent to clear. The catback of the exhaust will still be E30 equipment.
For freshening up, Eric recommended replacing the valve cover gasket and replacing the spark plugs.
E30 89+ i's can use their radiator. But E36 hoses are used.
E28 535 or M5 motor mounts are used to hold the M50 in the E30.

The details of the swap are convented by a few companies wanting to protect their business, primarily Zionsville Autosport who wants to sell their CD.

Stu is a helpful resource, but it'd be respectful not to try to mooch too much info.

Eric Lukas site is very helpful. http://www.lukasbmw.com go to modification articles, M50 swap advice.

[Brian 89 325i]

How do you bend a set of headers? wont that tweak the whole thing? Also Whats the shifting like the the stock E30 trans? And how much for an M3 shaft? ( i just bought a new shaft for my car) I was planning on a 2.8 but i think id rather have an updated platform to use, I just can come up with any really big down sides.

Brian

[rwh11385]

How do you bend a set of headers? wont that tweak the whole thing? Also Whats the shifting like the the stock E30 trans? And how much for an M3 shaft? ( i just bought a new shaft for my car) I was planning on a 2.8 but i think id rather have an updated platform to use, I just can come up with any really big down sides.

Brian

Lukas said: "I highly recommend going with the proper transmission. The M20 tranny will work but shifting is not as smooth with the 10o angle. This will also save you from having to make a custom tranny bracket."

Stu uses the E30 trans, and I haven't heard him complain. Pete McHenry should be able to made a custom tranny bracket for you, either call him or get in touch through one of his sons. When I was investigating the swap, he said he would be happy to make one for me.

I think a M3 drive shaft would be around $350 used, from Luka's page, lil images in the middle of the pages for the swap.

Yeah, the M20 stroker is a cool idea, but the M50 has its major benefits. Like better technology, better gas mileage, less maintencem, and coolness. 8) Only bad part is it might costs a LOT is you don't do the work yourself.

[Brian 89 325i]

The only thing i cant do myself is any fabrication. I have the means to swap motors and parts and such, it *SEEMS* pretty stright forward. Just like swaping and M20 once you have all the required parts. Of course the wiring will be the hardest. But it always is.

In the case of the stock trans. How is it stu? Also how much for your dad to make a support for me?

Brian

[Bryson]

You have to bend the selector rod to get it to work also.
You have to bend the heater lines through the firewall (careful not to break them) upwards out of the way.
And last, but DEFINITELY not least, e34 oil pan/pump. heh
If I were you, I'd just get a custom exhaust bent

edit: if you have the correct wiring diagrams, the wiring will be cake

[Rob]

as for the tranny, I'm going to go with the m20 tranny. its cheaper, and a lot less complicated internally, which means its easier to fix. oh yeah, its cheaper too :P

[Brian 89 325i]

If I were you, I'd just get a custom exhaust bent

Do you mean a custom fabbed header? Ive got the money for this(the swap) but that gets freakishly $$$. OR will the exhaust manifolds clear but not the down pipes? If the manifolds clear and i need custom downpipes, thats what i was planning on.

Brian

[trent]

Re: ALRIGHT, i got bit by the M50 bug again.

You must the the E30 M3 driveshaft (or possibly an E36 one) with the E36 tranny.

The Getrag 260 (our stock) tranny will also work, at a 10degree angle, and uses the stock driveshaft.
No comment on brake booster.
Eric Lukas swapped his 4.10LS he was using with his M20 back for a 3.73LS when his M50 when in. With the added torque, a shorter drive ratio isn't needed.
The stock headers will hit the ?control arms? and will needed to be bent to clear. The catback of the exhaust will still be E30 equipment.
For freshening up, Eric recommended replacing the valve cover gasket and replacing the spark plugs.
E30 89+ i's can use their radiator. But E36 hoses are used.
E28 535 or M5 motor mounts are used to hold the M50 in the E30.

The details of the swap are convented by a few companies wanting to protect their business, primarily Zionsville Autosport who wants to sell their CD.

WHY ARE YOU BABBLING BULLSHIT? :roll:

E36 tranny will fit with stock driveshaft if you want. You must use E30M3 driveshaft with an M transmission.
E21 320i booster is suggested. You can use stock 325i MC just fine.
Stock M50 cast or tubular exhaust manifolds will not "hit" anything. The stock E30 DOWNPIPES will have to be fabricated to fit the M50 exhaust manifolds -- this isn't that expensive for an exhaust shop to do.
You do NOT need a custom transmission bracket. You just need to look at it and be creative.
I would not bend the selector shaft -- it is easier to bend the actual shift rod.

Lukas said: "I highly recommend going with the proper transmission. The M20 tranny will work but shifting is not as smooth with the 10o angle. This will also save you from having to make a custom tranny bracket."

This is utter fucking bullshit. Transmission shifts fine.

[Brian 89 325i]

YAY thanks trent. SO i can get the E36 trans with the engine i can use my new(stock 325i) drive shaft. Do i need to look the trans backet "creatively" if i use the E36 trans? If i use the E36 trans will i NEED a new diff? I have a 373LSD in there that i just got. Or can i keep it but my revs will be really high on the freeway?

Thanks for the right info trent, i had planed to have cutom down pipes anyway,

What kind of spark plugs do i use for the M50?

I think thats it for now,
Brian

[whakiewes]

The reason why these shops are "hogging" their swap CD's is because it took them a lot of time and effort to make a successful swap. The key word is successful. You can swap in the engine, shaft this and that...and the engine might run fine. Support a local business and buy their swap CD's.

The M50 can use almost any spark plug from NGK's to Bosch P+4's. I or my friend max have tried everyone on the market. We both were running +4's until several people told us about the harm that can be done if they are not installed perfectly. So we switched to +2's which I am still running. Max switched to NGK's after he fried all 6 of his running way to rich(So rich, when he tried to start it flooded itself). Both our cars run very smooth. I have 4500 on my plugs...and its already being a pain to start in cold weather. I think I may swap back to the NGK Platinums for the winter. If you have any more M50 questions, feel free to ask.

Wes

[trent]

YAY thanks trent. SO i can get the E36 trans with the engine i can use my new(stock 325i) drive shaft. Do i need to look the trans backet "creatively" if i use the E36 trans? If i use the E36 trans will i NEED a new diff? I have a 373LSD in there that i just got. Or can i keep it but my revs will be really high on the freeway?

Thanks for the right info trent, i had planed to have cutom down pipes anyway,

What kind of spark plugs do i use for the M50?

I think thats it for now,
Brian

There is actually NO good reason to go with the E36 transmission. It is just added cost. The lowest gear ratio you would want to go with on that transmission would be a 3.46LS -- which are hard to come by. Most go with a 3.25LS which is more common.

I use NGK Iridium race plugs which I found creatively / and cross referenced to make sure they worked. :)

[whakiewes]

Why do you have to go with a 3.46. A 3.73 would be fine, and it would rip. How often are you going to be going +70mph for a constant period. When I was going to do a stock M50 swap in my E30 M3, I was going to run the 4.10 for shits and giggles. Have fun with you car...

Wes

[Brian 89 325i]

As far as the 70+ question, i do that all the time, if im on the freeway im going 80+ traffic permitting. I routinely break tripple digits on my way home from work(1:00 AM+)

I realize the shops are trying to protect their time and money but i really dont think its worth 100+ for a cd that most say isnt all that great anyway. What kind of RPMS do you think i would be at if i use the e36 trans and my diff(3.73). Say 5th at 80 mph?

Also if i get the E36 trans its assured to have lower miles on it mine rattles and such, does the e36 trans weigh more than the E30?

Also, is there any California legal M50 turbo kits? Whats the CR on the M50?

I think ill keep my trans and just wait untill i get an M trans and ill get a new diff.

Thanks
Brian

[whakiewes]

I understand you do 70+, but for an extended period of time where your engine could overheat?

My friend has a 3.73 in his E36 wtih a 6-speed and a built 3.2L. At 5th at AROUND 80mph, he is pushing about 4400rpms. There is a calculator somewhere that will tell you. With my 3.23, I am at about 4K at 80 in 5th. I would say you would be in the mid 4K's.

The E36 transmission is a Getrag 260. Your E30 transmission is a Getrag 260. Identicle weight and size, just different bell housing mounts. The 260 from E36's is very hard to find for some reason in decent condition. I have been looking for about a month, and just paid to have it rebuilt by Blanton as everyone I found sucked worse than mine. Unless you can find an engine combo, your going to have some trouble locating one...or atleast I did.

MechTech is the only company that makes a SMOG legal turbo kit. The company itself has always had a bad reputation, but since most of the claims a lot has changed. You are better off building an NA monster in an E30. I can attest for what 230rwhp feels like in Stu's car, much more than that and your going in to the danger zone. I have all the parts you will need to stroke you 2.5L, and still cost quite a bit less than just buying an S50. The compression ration on a non-vanos 2.5L is 10.0:1, the vanos 2.5L is 10.5:1. The non-vanos has a beefier head from the factory, and can be bored to 86mm if you wish to make a 3.0L stroker. The vanos engine can only take 85.5mm if you don't purchase an M3 block. If you want to go FI, the non-vanos will be a cheaper route stock, but the vanos has more benefits in the long run if you decide to build the head and put a forged bottom end in the car. Another option is a 2.8L Aluminum block. Its a square block(84mm/84mm), and the bottom end is already completely forged. That I think would be the cheapest quality FI kit, with a 2.5L non-vanos head.

Wes