Major sunroof problems

[JGood]

A few years ago, my sunroof started whistling. I adjusted it, but could never get it perfect. Fast forward to about a year ago, I gave it another go. I don't know what I did, but when I took it for a test drive, it was screaming. And it's all been downhill from there. Something came loose and/or broke, so you could get it so it wouldn't whistle when you put it in the closed position, from the tilt position, but it would whistle if you put it from the open to the closed position, or vice versa. Then it started jamming up, and leaking.

And it kept getting worse. Now, there's random rods and brackets bent, tearing up the sunroof headliner panel, and water literally pours in. If it rains, you're getting very wet. The drains are all open, it just runs in past the gasket because it's so far misaligned. The entire thing is so fucked up, its way beyond simple repair or adjustment. I'm baffled that it still works and hasnt crumpled up and self destructed.

So I'm curious what you guys think my best course of action is. I see three options:

1. Buy all new sunroof parts, (probably close to $1000 worth of shit?)

2. Cut a sunroof cartridge our of another car and put it on mine.

3. Cut my roof off, install a roof off a parts car with a good sunroof assembly.

I'm tearing the car down to do some serious front end rust repair (frame rails, shock towers, etc...) So #3 doesn't scare me too much, but it will add a few hundred hours of work to my winter project, and overall costs will be higher (paint).

Has anyone done any of the above 3, or have a recommendation for another option?

[JGood]

Actually, I just went through realoem and if I purchase every mechanical part of the sunroof assembly, besides the motor and cables, it comes out to a little over $300 through ECS Tuning. That sounds a little more appetizing then replacing a roof.

But, I've never built the sunroof assembly from scratch. Anyone have any experience?

[be34st]

I need to do this as well. I hope someone can chime in.

[Gerta]

I found a really good write up on the web regarding sunroof installation, repair, and such.
A guy was redoing his headliner and shows how it all goes together. My guess if the sunroof is "whistling" then it has to do with the tilt mechanism i.e. your sunroof has a gap letting the flow of air in to create a vortex of musical excitement.

It could just be a few parts that you have to swap out or I understand whistling can happen with a bad gasket seal. Let me see if I can find this article and then post it up tonight.

Gerta

[JGood]

I found a really good write up on the web regarding sunroof installation, repair, and such.
A guy was redoing his headliner and shows how it all goes together. My guess if the sunroof is "whistling" then it has to do with the tilt mechanism i.e. your sunroof has a gap letting the flow of air in to create a vortex of musical excitement.

It could just be a few parts that you have to swap out or I understand whistling can happen with a bad gasket seal. Let me see if I can find this article and then post it up tonight.

Gerta

That would be great, thanks!

Yes, my sunroof was whistling due to either a bad gasket or misalignment. The Bentley manual has the specs, I think it's 1-2mm under in the front, 2-3mm over in the rear, or something like that. Unfortunately, my entire assembly is so jacked up, that the sunroof actually moves up and down a good 1/4", in any position, without me touching the button. You can literally just push up on it and the whole thing moves. So even if it is aligned in one position, it just moves around and whistles anyway. There are literally parts that are broken, bent, or missing all together in mine.

[CarsSuck]

You should try to post up a couple pics. Its hard to visualize the extent of the damage.

I have similar problems. At least one of the front bolts that attaches the panel to its bracket came out on mine and got stuck in the tracks. I have to push up on the front of the SR to get it to close.

I vote to fix it if its feasible. If it needs a whole new cartridge, then slick top fuh razing.

[Gerta]

http://e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82279

http://e30.bmwdiy.info/sunroof-adjust/index.html

Both of these articles were very helpful ... the first is more to see how it all attaches ...

[JGood]

I disassembled most of the sunroof last night. There seems to be 2 main systems of components. The motor and cables being one, and the lifting mechanism for the tilt feature being the other. The motor and cables seem to be operating perfectly. I still have these parts in the car.

The lifting mechanism is also the part that bolts to the sunroof via 6 torx screws. It involves 2 main brackets on each side that bolt to the sunroof, and a pin/pivot assembly that connects those brackets to the cables.

It's hard to explain, so here are some pics:



Sunroof removed, everything else in place, in tilt position:





Sunroof removed, everything else in place, in tilt position:





Sunroof removed, everything else in place, in tilt position:





In down position, slightly retracted backwards to access some of the screws:





Lifting mechanism parts:





Lifting mechanism parts:





Cables in place, after lifting mechanism is removed:





Sunroof headliner with support arm:

[JGood]

I didn't notice anything broken. One of the support arms for the sunroof headliner was bent, and both sides were just pointing up rather then down, in some sort of track, like I'd assume they should be. So I'll get a new headliner assembly, but that has no effect on my main problems.

In the lifting assembly, I didn't see anything cracked. The arms seemed slightly bent in the front where they are metal (look at the pic of the parts on the shelf, the two long arms that are plastic at one end and metal at the other). So maybe that was the source of one of the issues. But as far as being able to move the sunroof around so much, mainly up and down, when it's in a certain position, I can't figure that out.


I would just replace the main lifting parts (the plastic/metal rails and the pivots things, see the pic of the parts on the shelves), but it appears those two pivot parts (see the close up pic of the parts in the shelves) are either not available, or only come attached to the cables.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=1564&mospid=47321&btnr=54_0135&hg=54&fg=05

Part #11 points to what I need, but lists it as the cable. #12 through #16 are the various bushings, rollers, and pins that attach to it.

11 DRIVE CABLE LEFT 01/1985 54121933749
11 DRIVE CABLE RIGHT 01/1985 54121933750

[JGood]

Looks like my suspicion is confirmed. Looked up the part number for the cable, got this:

[JGood]

More bullshit:

My car is 10/84 production. In 12/84, they switched to new cables. The left side cable has since been discontinued.

I have no idea why they are different. Every other part of the sunroof shares the same part numbers.

[JGood]

So I found an 86 325e parts car, and took all of the sunroof parts off.

One thing to note: The cables are different. The 85+ cables have a better slider, seems to distribute the load more. I see no reason why the wouldn't work in a 84 car.


I found nothing wrong with mine, besides the brackets being slightly bent in a spot that shouldn't matter, so I used the brackets from the parts car, cleaned and greased everything, reassembled it, and adjusted. Sure enough, it's working great. EXCEPT:

If I close the sunroof from the tilt position, I get a slight whistle at highway speeds. If I close it from the open position, it's quiet. Looking at what's happening, I see that when closing from the tilt position, the sunroof is pulled back 2-3 mm, creating a gap at the front, causing the whistle. If I slide it back a hair, then re-close it, it's quiet.

I do not know how to get rid of this. Possibly a new gasket?

I do have it adjusted properly, 1mm below roofline in the front, 1mm above roofline in the rear.

Either way, I sprayed it with a hose pretty hard, and it didn't leak, so I'm thrilled. I can live with the whistle, I'll just open and re-close it if it bothers me.

[CarsSuck]

congrats on the fix.

My sunroof won't stop in a closed position. It just closes and then tilts forward or vice versa, will tilt down and then open. Is there some mechanism that acts as a stop, or is it electrical?

[JGood]

That's I'm not sure about. I've heard there is a switch somewhere, so the motor turns a set number of times, then stops. But I'm really not sure. There's nothing that jumps out to me in the brackets themselves that seem like they would cause the cables to stop, and if there were, I'm not sure what would prevent the motor from continuing to try to turn.


Update on my issue, we had an insane rainstorm yesterday... not a drop of water came inside. Before, it used to dump water inside if it even drizzled. So I'm very relieved. This means my sunroof cassette and/or roof likely is NOT bent/warped/tweaked like I thought.

[deansbimmer]

There is a switch inside the motor area that is activated by teeth in the motor gear when the panel is closed/opened. If that switch is loose/broken/etc then the panel won't behave. Additionally, the cables can cause problems with the panel if they are out of adjustment by just a tooth or two. That can cause the roof to close cocked to one side, slightly up or down, or cause it not to close in the same position consistently. You may look there.

From what you're describing though, it sounds like the cable bracket at the end of the assembly may have a crack in it, or its rail- causing it to flex and not allow consistent closure after each movement.