m20 3.0

[Digitalwave]

where the hell can u get a s50 done for less than 7k... >.>

the s50 alone costs about 5k w/ tranny, then you gotta rebuild teh engine, and all sorts of other things... pistons, head work, exhaust.. etc... just to bring to to the same lvl as dave's stroker...

I can build a 2.8 stroker re-using old parts for about 2.5k... all you'd need is a good conditioned "i" head, wiring harness, ecu, pistons, block bored out, and that's about it... using i rods and the eta crank. now, if you're going to start fixing up the engine internals, that's where the costs come in. replace all maintnance items (all rubber, all pumps, etc) and then get the td crank, e36m3 rods, new valvetrain and valve job, port matching, extrude hones intake, bored out tb, headers... then yeah, all that brings up your costs. it all depends on how far you want to go.

but still, personally I wouldn't go past a 2.8 or maybe 2.9. 3.0 is too much stroke and you end up with efficiency problems in the combustion chamber, stress on the thinner cylinder walls, and other technicalities like that.

then there's always the option of a 2.7 turbo. use a proturbo adapter and stock i manifolds, td crank, super-eta pistons... etc.

So if you put the same amount of money into both, and got the same amount of horsepower from the built M20 as a stock S50, which puts you in better standing? The S50... because it's STOCK, and the M20 is MAXED OUT.

[lowslowe30]

the s50 alone costs about 5k w/ tranny, then you gotta rebuild teh engine, and all sorts of other things... pistons, head work, exhaust.. etc... just to bring to to the same lvl as dave's stroker...

You can use your m20 tranny I believe so take some money off from that, and a STOCK s50 would surpass the level of daves stroker so you wouldn't need to do any of those extra things you mentioned.

[nitro325is]

I have to agree with Jordan that it simply is not worth it to modify an m20.Go with a m50/s50

dave never really got that engine tuned right though. he had a lot of trouble with detonation and was stuck using the factory chip. He was also still using an AFM, a MAF conversion would have probably helped significantly.
..

You guys never saw BMP's e30 when it had the m20 did you? BMP threw its ENTIRE catalog at it.And it only mustered 205 rwhp.It was a fully built 2.8l with all this.

----Modifications on the M20 engine include a full race cylinder head, +2mm swirl polished valves, titanium retainers, HD race valve springs, 304deg. BMP custom cam, 2.7 stroker steel crank, 11.5:1 high performance pistons, high tensile head and main stud kit, as well as stronger rods. HFM conversion kit, BMP multi-throttle manifold, BMP adjustable fuel regulator and Split Second adjustable fuel/timing system. Supersprint stainless header and down pipe with cross-over and muffler.

Sure could have gotten an extra 10-15 rwhp if they had gone 3.0 but look at everything they did already!! They spent over $9000 on that engine! Nothing was left untouched or untuned.When i was at their gathering 2 yrs ago a sales rep Jason told me of the disappointing rwhp figures.Thats why they never published its dyno sheet on the web.They quickly pulled the engine 6 months later and sold it to 2002 track car.

I spent a shitload of money on my engine too and its sad when i can barely pull away from my bro that has only a chip,intake,exhaust, and 4.10 lsd. Damm my 3.73!

Thats why my i am going with an m3 cammed m50.Got the engine and cams.Just need the time!

[Sean]

I have to agree with Jordan that it simply is not worth it to modify an m20.Go with a m50/s50

dave never really got that engine tuned right though. he had a lot of trouble with detonation and was stuck using the factory chip. He was also still using an AFM, a MAF conversion would have probably helped significantly.
..

You guys never saw BMP's e30 when it had the m20 did you? BMP threw its ENTIRE catalog at it.And it only mustered 205 rwhp.It was a fully built 2.8l with all this.

----Modifications on the M20 engine include a full race cylinder head, +2mm swirl polished valves, titanium retainers, HD race valve springs, 304deg. BMP custom cam, 2.7 stroker steel crank, 11.5:1 high performance pistons, high tensile head and main stud kit, as well as stronger rods. HFM conversion kit, BMP multi-throttle manifold, BMP adjustable fuel regulator and Split Second adjustable fuel/timing system. Supersprint stainless header and down pipe with cross-over and muffler.

Sure could have gotten an extra 10-15 rwhp if they had gone 3.0 but look at everything they did already!! They spent over $9000 on that engine! Nothing was left untouched or untuned.When i was at their gathering 2 yrs ago a sales rep Jason told me of the disappointing rwhp figures.Thats why they never published its dyno sheet on the web.They quickly pulled the engine 6 months later and sold it to 2002 track car.

I spent a shitload of money on my engine too and its sad when i can barely pull away from my bro that has only a chip,intake,exhaust, and 4.10 lsd. Damm my 3.73!

Thats why my i am going with an m3 cammed m50.Got the engine and cams.Just need the time!

What does your brother have, nitro?



What I'd like to do eventually is buy a 2 door post 88 E30 and put an S50 in it. But, that won't be for a long time. Maybe even try to find a Euro

[nitro325is]

What does your brother have, nitro?-------



My bro has a 91 325i 5spd with 4.10lsd,Bavauto chip,K&N cone with erics heatshield,no cat and a supersprint exhaust.

It really pisses me off that the m20 is a piece of crap in NA form and that he stays behind only 2-3 CL when we race.This is without my spraying of course.Everything besides the basics my bro did is a waste of money! (NO2 excluded)
My 87 325is 5spd
Engine Mods: New Head
BMP 282/272 cam
BMP Heavy Duty valve springs
BMP Perfomance Wires
535i AFM
Mazula Bored Throttle Body
Bosch Platinum 4 Plugs
BavAuto Powerflow (K&N) with erics heatshield
BavAuto Chip
BavAuto/TopGun Nitrous Kit @75hp
Ansa Exhaust
No Cat
No Aircon
Mobil 1 Synthetic 15/50w
Redline fluids in Transmission/Diff
3.73 lsd thats needs to be swapped for a 4.10 lsd

[Rob]

higher lift cams love compression

[matt325is]

Not sure you guys understand how important a new engine management is to the m20 engine. The AFM and stock injectors KILL the engine. If you look at my dyno graph, I dont get boost until 2500rpm, considering this, look at the hp/tq gains at around 2200rpm, just after the spike. And also remember this is a 2.8l 8.0:1 compression engine. The only thing interrupting the air flow from my turbo to the intake manifold is the intercooler and throttlebody. Nothing else is in the way.

The red is 2.8l 8.0:1 compression with 19lb/hr injectors, stock engine managament
The blue is 2.8l 8.0:1 compression with 32lb/hr injectors, megasquirt engine management (and turbo...)



I give a thumbs up to the guys with 3.0's. I do like NA power, its quick, responsive and fast revving. But if I were to stay NA, I would probably do a m50/s50...

matt

[gstuning]

If anybody fiddles with there engine, intake, exhaust
the engine management is going to need retuning,

it´s just that simple, chips are out and laptop tuning is taking over,

[darien28]

hmmm, i just noticed that the graph is 8.0 comp w/o turbo... i thought it was stock b4...

that means I don't have to rush my turbo and can build my 8.0comp engine first... hmmm nice.

what do u think is better? 8.5-ish comp or 8.0? as I recall you're running thicker gasket right?

BMP must've done something wrong... esp w/ their tuning... we're getting ~ 200rwhp with a 2.8l stroker, custom chip, exhasut, modified intake, extrude honed manifold... etc.

the turbo can be done for well under 5k if you're using all stock intake and exhaust tract like matt. I plan to use an extrude hones intake, bored out tb, m30 AFM... also port match all the ports... but I'll prolly stick w/ stock valves and such since I've heard that the stainless valvestems are weaker than the stock hardened steel ones... $250 for a reconditioned head w/ new valves, retainers, valve seat grind... might as well...

plus, I like the curve of that turbo... the low end doesn't dip below stock levels, and it just keeps on climbing. heh heh. add a ltw flywheel and you'll have one fast car even at low boost. and all for under 5k. ^^

[Digitalwave]

Screw an AFM... step up and do the SMT-6 with a MAF. Its cheap.

[Stu]

What does your brother have, nitro?-------



My bro has a 91 325i 5spd with 4.10lsd,Bavauto chip,K&N cone with erics heatshield,no cat and a supersprint exhaust.

It really pisses me off that the m20 is a piece of crap in NA form and that he stays behind only 2-3 CL when we race.This is without my spraying of course.Everything besides the basics my bro did is a waste of money! (NO2 excluded)
My 87 325is 5spd
Engine Mods: New Head
BMP 282/272 cam
BMP Heavy Duty valve springs
BMP Perfomance Wires
535i AFM
Mazula Bored Throttle Body
Bosch Platinum 4 Plugs
BavAuto Powerflow (K&N) with erics heatshield
BavAuto Chip
BavAuto/TopGun Nitrous Kit @75hp
Ansa Exhaust
No Cat
No Aircon
Mobil 1 Synthetic 15/50w
Redline fluids in Transmission/Diff
3.73 lsd thats needs to be swapped for a 4.10 lsd

The reason your brothers car is slow is because of what he has done to it. All these fancy external mods to push air and he has a 75mm stroke and stock compression?! Get real.

[rwh11385]

If anybody fiddles with there engine, intake, exhaust
the engine management is going to need retuning,

it´s just that simple, chips are out and laptop tuning is taking over,

Screw an AFM... step up and do the SMT-6 with a MAF. Its cheap.

Those mods are not going to yield much gain if the engine isn't tuned right. Chips are great for stock engines, but custom tuning is needed when you want to have more air and fuel to go in.

The reason your brothers car is slow is because of what he has done to it. All these fancy external mods to push air and he has a 75mm stroke and stock compression?! Get real.

This is true, there is only a certain limit a stock block M20 will do. What did you dad say Stu, 200hp? That's what Lukas mentioned he related to him. Anyway, all the intakes and exhausts in the world won't make an engine draw in that much air and fuel. Something else is needed.

A longer stroke draws in more air......draws in more fuel.....makes more power. Of course, you have to have enough going on outside the block to get as much air and fuel as it wants to make power. Head porting, extrude honing, MAF can only go so far with freeing up restrictions.....especially on a 2 valve per cylinder motor........

Ted's car may not have the most HP or beat a S50, but he does love his engine, and loves the torque. Different Strokes for Different Folks ;) (haha, get the pun? )

To extract all the power from a M20 car, you'd need to increase stroke and lower restrictions to allow more air in, use a turbo to push more air in, or swap the engine. We've seen them all.

e30powerslide, 3.0L M20 are possible, but very costly. It's all about how much you are willing to spend, and what you are looking for.

[mspiegle]

one thing i think that is of worth mentioning is that a 3.0L M20 looks stock under the hood. That may be an advantage if you happen to be in one of those crappy states... what was it? oh yeah, california... where i live.

i may be helping someone outfit a 250rwhp race M3 with a MAF soon... should be VERY interesting to see how it goes. I just got my 928 fixed, so i can move it out of the garage and finish up my MAF conversion instructions and do some g-tech testing.

[darien28]

you think the smog shop will notice my snail-shell next to the exhaust after I build my engine up?? heh... i hope they don't mind... else I can just bolt up the stoc downpipes for a non-turbo engine w/ 8~8.5 compression... the dyno on matt's car didn't look that bad w/o the turbo running that low compression... and yeah, i live in CA.. smog here sucks!

[SickE30]

wow, dave's car only put down 180 to the wheels..that's pretty much a bone stock M50 if I am not mistaken. With tuning that car could've been sick. Well, sicker.