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e10 ethernol blends in old e30 323i

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    e10 ethernol blends in old e30 323i

    I get mixed views when I ask if its ok to use 10% ethenol blends in my old e30. My general garage mechanic said no problem at all and even not to bother adding a lead substitute additive into each fill of gas (to compensate for lead lubricant in old lead fuels). He said there would still be plenty of lead lubricating valves adding newer (phosphorus?) lubricant additive is optional but not necessary in these old cars that have started their lives running lead fuel.

    The e10 biofuel mix in Australia is meant to bring octane up to 91.
    Isnt the stock tuning/timing in the ECU chip set to 87? Is it worth bothering upgrading the ROM tune to octane 91?

    Do you need to add a lead replacement additive each fill?

    Should I use e10 blend fuels or will that damage the seals/rubber tubing in the fuel injection etc??


    Noone seems to give me a concise answer so thought would ask here.



    PS:

    fuel companies homepage says not recommended on old cars contrary to what mechanic told me - covering their arses perhaps?

    " the use of ethanol blended petrol in fuel injection systems will result in early deterioration of components such as injector seals, delivery pipes, and fuel pump and regulator.Mechanical fuel injection systems and earlier electronic systems may not be able to fully compensate for the lean-out effect of ethanol blended petrol, resulting in hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration.
    Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start can also result."

    #2
    who knows. but you should try it out

    Comment


      #3
      Fuel has no lead in it anymore, so im not sure where he thinks you'll get lead from. It's probably been driving around on unleaded all these years so the damage will have been done.

      Cars designed in the mid 80's had hardened valve seats and would run on unleaded fuels without wear. It was really the cars before that which suffered, mainly on the valve seats. If you want to buy some valvesaver type liquid, just run it every 4 or so tank fulls, keep a little bottle in the car.

      You need to be running premium not E10. E10 blended stuff is only a min of 93 octane, the original leaded fuel was around 96. So you need to run a minimum 95/96 octane fuel (all the premium fuels in aus will be this at a minimum).

      Nothing really to tune it to suit the lesser fuels, even if you alter the ignition timing I don't think you'll be able to pull enough timing out of it to stop it pinging without the engine feeling flat and lifeless.

      Small blends are ok, it's things like Premium 100 and E85 you really need to be wary of running in an old car. They have much higher amounts of ethanol in them.
      Just a little project im working on
      - http://www.lse30.com -

      Comment


        #4
        thanks madhatter will go for 95 octane fuel even if it costs 25c more.
        I have been running e10 for a year and for some reason found the idle to be smoother than 95. Was thinking of mixing 1/2tank e10 and 95 to save some money but havent tried it yet. I need to sort my idling issues anyway but thats another story.

        My car is an 85 model e30 so does that mean the valve seats are hardened and dont need lubrication? I do have a bottle of valve saver and tend to pour a little too much every tankful so hope too much valve saver isnt going to cause a problem either. Will do it every 2nd tank from now.

        BTW- Where is your garage in oz? Anywhere in Western Sydney? Need to find a good e30 mechanic local.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by lentildude View Post
          some reason found the idle to be smoother than 95.
          you may not be imagining it, lower octane is easier to burn, so I imagine this is possible.
          '84 318i M10B18 147- Safari Beige
          NA: 93whp/90ftlbs, MS2E w/ LC, 2-Step
          Turbo: 221whp/214ftlbs, MS3x flex @ 17psi

          Comment


            #6
            I'm pretty sure no E30 ever needed leaded fuel. these aren't muscle cars from 1972.

            E10 sucks for a number of reasons but it should be just fine.
            Build thread

            Bimmerlabs

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              #7
              Lead was eliminated as a fuel additive mainly because it fouled up catalytic converters. If your car came from the factory with a catalytic converter, it was designed to run on unleaded fuel.

              E10 won't cause any damage to your fuel system.

              As for octane rating, you should run whatever the owner's manual says if your vehicle is stock. Running a higher octane fuel than your ignition map is designed for is money wasted. My '89 325i owner's manual says to run regular unleaded, known in the states as 87 (AKI, or RON+MON/2), and known in oz, nz and europe as 91 or 92 (RON).
              1989 Bronzit 325i

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                #8
                I believe all gas in 'Murica is E10 and has been for years - all our older cars have been fine, I guess. If I had a choice though, I'd take the gas without any ethanol in it - from what I understand, the non-ethanol-y stuff lasts longer and isn't quite as corrosive to the fuel system.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jalopi View Post
                  I believe all gas in 'Murica is E10 and has been for years - all our older cars have been fine, I guess. If I had a choice though, I'd take the gas without any ethanol in it - from what I understand, the non-ethanol-y stuff lasts longer and isn't quite as corrosive to the fuel system.
                  +1, most gasoline sold in the states has been e10 for several years, as MTBE, which replaced tetraethyl lead, has been banned in most states since the mid 2000's.

                  E10 shouldn't be left to sit for long periods of time as the ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning that it absorbs water from the surrounding air.

                  Also, ethanol is a strong solvent and may dislodge residual gunk in your fuel system and send it toward your engine. It would be advisable to service your fuel filter after your first few tankfuls of E10 and then continue to replace the fuel filter on schedule.
                  1989 Bronzit 325i

                  Comment


                    #10
                    leaded gas was banned here in WA in the '90s. unbelievable that it was still allowed anywhere in the last decade given the health effects of lead in the environment.
                    Build thread

                    Bimmerlabs

                    Comment


                      #11
                      For what it's worth, I never had any problems running my M40 316i on 95E10. I've been told that ethanol is the least of my worries with the stuff they put into the fuel these days, but I can't really say anything useful in that regard. Lead substitues aren't going to do anything useful, but occasional use of some sort of fuel preservant and/or cleaner could be worth it, maybe.

                      '93 Daytonaviolett Touring Design Edition

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The main worry about using ethanol in older cars is that some or most of the rubber seals are not designed to handle alcohol. They can dry out and leak.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Lots of misinformation in here. You guys in the US are forgetting you got lesser rated engines. They lowered the compression ratio for a lot of engines in your market. We don't have that in australia, we have the higher spec euro engines as standard.

                          Originally posted by lentildude View Post
                          thanks madhatter will go for 95 octane fuel even if it costs 25c more.
                          I have been running e10 for a year and for some reason found the idle to be smoother than 95. Was thinking of mixing 1/2tank e10 and 95 to save some money but havent tried it yet. I need to sort my idling issues anyway but thats another story.

                          My car is an 85 model e30 so does that mean the valve seats are hardened and dont need lubrication? I do have a bottle of valve saver and tend to pour a little too much every tankful so hope too much valve saver isnt going to cause a problem either. Will do it every 2nd tank from now.

                          BTW- Where is your garage in oz? Anywhere in Western Sydney? Need to find a good e30 mechanic local.
                          Some servo's (like united) have an E10 blended fuel that is 95. You won't have any problems with that, just the cheapest unleaded like you'll get at discount servos is often usually 93, which is too low an octane for the car. It varies a lot between companies, so you just have to pay attention to fuel types. In aus, unleaded fuel only has to be a minimum of 91, so depending on where they get it from, it can be far too low.

                          It can go either way. By the 80's they started making vehicles with hardened valve seats anticipating the banning and removal of leaded fuels. You really don't know until you look with vehicles produced in the early part of the 80's. Too much can foul spark plugs, leaves an oily residue on them. No real problems that are permanent, can run rough until it burns the deposits off the plugs.

                          QLD unfortunately. Maybe ask for suggestions on eurocca.net? members might be able to point you in the direction of a good garage in sydney.

                          I tend to suggest you'll be fine running unleaded just as long as you run the correct rating fuel.

                          Originally posted by nando View Post
                          I'm pretty sure no E30 ever needed leaded fuel. these aren't muscle cars from 1972.

                          E10 sucks for a number of reasons but it should be just fine.
                          We didn't get rid of leaded fuels until pretty late, started being replaced at average service stations in the later 90's and was banned in 2002. We didn't even have cat's on a lot of vehicles until the 90's, so we got a lot of the euro spec higher compression bmw engines here. For example, our 325i's are 9.7:1 comp ratio. The 323i's are 9.8:1, hence the higher rated fuels needed.

                          It won't, it's only 93 octane which is about your 88, though it could be as low as 91 which is 87. They were designed to run on premium fuel here, which is a minimum of 95, which is about your 91.
                          Just a little project im working on
                          - http://www.lse30.com -

                          Comment


                            #14
                            still, I'm fairly certain no E30s were ever made that required leaded fuel. they don't have cast iron heads, so hardened valve seats are sort of a no-brainer.
                            Build thread

                            Bimmerlabs

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                              #15
                              Germany started to limit lead content in gas in 1972 i think your fine
                              88 325is Five Speed
                              Lachssilber

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