Help me build my E30

[bimmerphile]

Since the "Big Plans" list is in general, I would like to keep the amount of non-tech posts to a minimum in this thread, which is why I split it up as I did. Here's what I need help with on the tech side of things.

Please respond! (if you think you'll be wasting your time, you're not. I am DAMN serious. I know you tech guys are out there.)

Suspension:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this.

Brakes:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this. New brakes may not be needed with E36 M3 rotors, no?

Shoes:
• Proper offset/max width after 5-lug swap is done? Tire size? Fenders will be rolled in both front and rear.
• Hakkapellitas in Winter.

Engine:
• S50B30. What internal mods can be done to this engine to increase its output yet maintain its legality?

Exhaust:
• In the dark here aswell. Stu, what are you running?

Transmission:
• Best selection to accompany the S50B30, as well as best rear diff?


Thank you. You who reply are the ones making this happen. I give you my greatest gratitude.

Kris

[Rob]

all those questions can be answered in 5 words: how deep are your pockets? That changes everything

[bimmerphile]

all those questions can be answered in 5 words: how deep are your pockets? That changes everything

Well, naturally im not going to be dropping on a brand new parts for the 5-lug swap, fully rebuilding the S50, etc.

The further my money can go, the further my money can go.

[Rob]

Re: Help me build my E30

Fine fine, have it your way

Suspension:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this.
GC/Konis+sways. all new bushings

Brakes:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this. New brakes may not be needed with E36 M3 rotors, no?
If you do e30 m3 5 lug, you can do e36 m3 brakes up front, would be plenty

Shoes:
• Proper offset/max width after 5-lug swap is done? Tire size? Fenders will be rolled in both front and rear.
• Hakkapellitas in Winter.

Engine:
• S50B30. What internal mods can be done to this engine to increase its output yet maintain its legality?
nothing cheap

Exhaust:
• In the dark here aswell. Stu, what are you running?
custom single pipe catback, at least 2.5", preferably 3" for a 3.0

Transmission:
• Best selection to accompany the S50B30, as well as best rear diff?
E30 325 (260?) is the cheapest to buy and work on, either a 3.73 or 4.10 LSD


Thank you. You who reply are the ones making this happen. I give you my greatest gratitude.

Kris

[bimmerphile]

Re: Help me build my E30

Fine fine, have it your way

Suspension:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this.
GC/Konis+sways. all new bushings

Brakes:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this. New brakes may not be needed with E36 M3 rotors, no?
If you do e30 m3 5 lug, you can do e36 m3 brakes up front, would be plenty

Shoes:
• Proper offset/max width after 5-lug swap is done? Tire size? Fenders will be rolled in both front and rear.
• Hakkapellitas in Winter.

Engine:
• S50B30. What internal mods can be done to this engine to increase its output yet maintain its legality?
nothing cheap

Exhaust:
• In the dark here aswell. Stu, what are you running?
custom single pipe catback, at least 2.5", preferably 3" for a 3.0

Transmission:
• Best selection to accompany the S50B30, as well as best rear diff?
E30 325 (260?) is the cheapest to buy and work on, either a 3.73 or 4.10 LSD


Thank you. You who reply are the ones making this happen. I give you my greatest gratitude.

Kris

Thanks Rob. Out of curiousity, what is your way?

[Rob]

haha, keep a stock m42 and run out 3 gears without breaking the speed limit :P


actually i'd do a 2.5, 260 trans, 4.10lsd, 4 lug with the RPI or IE brake kit, VSR bar, CF hood, Cobra Imola buckets, somehting along those lines

[Brew]

Shoes:
• Proper offset/max width after 5-lug swap is done? Tire size? Fenders will be rolled in both front and rear.
• Hakkapellitas in Winter.

According to his website, Dave Adams' e34 m5 wheels are 17x8 w/ a et20 offset. They seem to fit about perfectly:


If you're going to be doing a tuned s50, your probably going to want some big rubber out back. Maybe some 245's? I'm not sure if it could be done on a late-model e30 without fender flares, though.

I agree with Rob about the exhaust. Go full custom with a universal-type muffler. Maybe a Brullen?

I would guess that with all that torque, and being basically a daily driver, that you would want a 3.73 or 3.4? in the rear end.


Sounds like it will be an awesome project.

[rwh11385]

Re: Help me build my E30

Please respond! (if you think you'll be wasting your time, you're not. I am DAMN serious. I know you tech guys are out there.)

Suspension:
• Please post your suggestions. A 5-lug swap and E36 M3 Steering rack will accompany this.
GC/ Advance Design (or Koni SA)

Brakes:
BBK 4lug? no? Alright, then just stock M3 rotors would be plenty imagine. E30's are light. Of course, my classmate has Porsche TT brakes on his E36 LTW......

Shoes:
Whatever you feel like man.

Engine:
• S50B30. Nope. I'd go for tuned S50 3.2. I think Alex is selling his on Bf.c. Stu educated me on one thread why S50 US is better than Euro motors.......I'll find it.

Exhaust:
E30 exhaust from like cat back, something something from manifold to there.......

Transmission:
• Best selection to accompany the S50B30, as well as best rear diff?
260....or your choice if you want the heaveier E36 M3 gear. Go for 4.10 if you have 260. 3.25 propably if E36 M3.

I'm kinda tired right now......I'll add to this thread later. I've also thought of my ideal dream E30....so maybe I can let a hand.....eeeer keystroke to this....

here is Stu's rant on US M3 engines versus euro:

You guys are completely missing the point.

Peak horsepower doesn't mean anything. What matters is where you're getting the power. Euro 6-throttle motors don't pull any harder than US single-throttles until about 4500-5000rpm. In BMW CCA Club Racing, the guys with built US 3.2's are pulling on the 6-throttle guys coming out of corners because of the mid-range torque advantage. Sure, at the very end of the straights, the 6-throttles have pulled a bit, but all they do is scream until 7500, 8000.

Also keep in mind that a Euro motor swap will require either a custom brake booster or NO brake booster. That's right, the 6-throttle intake manifold makes for NO room for a brake booster, unless you have one remote mounted. You will also spend more having a shop do the wiring and engine install.

Furthermore, the cost of PARTS for the 6-throttle motors is outrageous. Ignition coils are about $90 a pop, whereas they are about $35 a piece for a US motor. Keep in mind you have 6 of those sum'bitches. Don't get me started on the cost of upgrades for Euro motors (ECU's, exhausts, etc).

I would go with a US 3.0 or 3.2, OBD-1 regardless. They are a tried and true install, the parts are available everywhere, they have truckloads of mid-range, they pull like hell up top, they are cheaper than Euro motors, and the install and wiring is just simpler. Go pick up a 3.0 or 3.2, a swap kit, the parts needed....and throw it in there.

.........

The guys with US 3.0's and 3.2's with common upgrades are getting lots of power and torque out of them, with outstanding curves.

Typical bolt-ons:
-Euro HFM, 21.5# injectors (standard on 3.2)
-Custom software to match HFM/injectors
-pulleys
-fan delete
-custom intake setup
-exhaust (deletion of cats)

These guys are getting 230+ wheel horsepower.


You make the call, but I just put in my thoughts.


What would I do? Either a 3.0 or 3.2 US motor.....OBD-1, regardless.

[1985bmw325e]

i think getting an s50 is completely pointless and a waste of money compared to getting an m50.....just stick with an m50 and get an e36 m3 tranny and it'll be just the same. They are practically the same engines, except with minor mods on the s50

[bimmerphile]

i think getting an s50 is completely pointless and a waste of money compared to getting an m50.....just stick with an m50 and get an e36 m3 tranny and it'll be just the same. They are practically the same engines, except with minor mods on the s50

who want's to verify this? (the part that it is pointless to do an S50 vs M50)

[rwh11385]

i call BS on his ass. especially because this is his 2ND post!

To get the same juice out of a M50, it'd take the S50 and S52 components and a lot of custom work! Think about boring out cylinders, buying S52 crank, M3 cams, etc. etc. It'd make more sense to just buy a S50, and in your case be anal and rebuild it. (With 3.2 crank, Euro HFM, larger injectors, etc. for more :twisted: )

You can build a M50 to S50 spec, but what's the point?

[Rob]

i think getting an s50 is completely pointless and a waste of money compared to getting an m50.....just stick with an m50 and get an e36 m3 tranny and it'll be just the same. They are practically the same engines, except with minor mods on the s50

thats pretty ignorant

[Jon325i]

In regards to the 5-lug swap, the route to take that will offer the least amount of headaches will be E30 M3 stuff. As I'm sure you know these parts are more rare and can command a higher price. However, all of the necessary parts will drop right in with no modifications. I know E36 stuff will work too, but from what I've read and heard from others, there is more work involved. I guess its really up to you and how 'involved' you want this project to be.

I'm in the process of doing and E30 M3 suspension/brake conversion to my car. I really hadn't planned on doing this project, but I located a seller who was selling a fairly complete assortment of parts to do the conversion for $750. Here's what I got....

Front struts: shocks, springs, rotors, calipers, wheel bearings, hubs, and top mount bearing

Trailing arms: springs, rotors, calipers, hubs, trailing arms, and e-brake cables

I sold the M3 springs to a friend for $100 since I plan on employing my current shocks/springs into the M3 stuff. I also managed to find a set of 4 OEM 15" M3 basketweaves with good tires for $300 in the last month. So up this point, I have just under a grand invested into this and all I need is the following...

E32 master cylinder
SS brake lines
Full set of brake pads
Pad wear sensors
Bleeder nipples (two are broken)
Bushings/hardware for factory sway bars (21mm front, 14.5mm rear)
Trailing arm bushings

In addition to those items, I decided that while I'm tearing into the car I am going to replace the subframe bushings as well. I recently picked up a pair of IE urethane subframe bushings through a group buy for $65. So to be honest I have just over $1,000 into this project, but I don't need much to make it all happen. Before the end of March I should have the rest of the pieces needed to do this. It would be great if I can do it all for under $1,500 (yes....I plan on doing ALL the work myself).

Jon

[e30Matt]

i think getting an s50 is completely pointless and a waste of money compared to getting an m50.....just stick with an m50 and get an e36 m3 tranny and it'll be just the same. They are practically the same engines, except with minor mods on the s50

thats pretty ignorant

Yeah, there's not much difference... besides, oh, half a liter of displacement, cams, the fact that it was factory installed in an M3 and makes ~50hp more... oh yeah... that's just trivial stuff though.

Personally, I'd go for a non-VANOS M50. But I'm biased because that's the route I'm going. No VANOS unit to (rarely, but possibly) break, and with a little cam juggling you can have M3 cam profiles with more aggressive lift.

[mdistel]

What model e30 do you have? What condition are the engine and suspension in?

Have you taken it to a track yet? Start by fixing any problems then take it to the track. From there decide if you want more power, better brakes, or a better suspenion.

I've seen a lot of guys waste a lot of money on mods then upgrading a few months latter.

With the m50 motor in my car I have too much power and not enough handling and braking. I would start there then do the motor swap.

I don't get into the M50 vs S50 debate. It all depends on how much you want to spend because that isultimatly the deciding factor.

Mark