m50/52 vs 2.8l build

[devarato]

what are the power differences or pros/cons of either the m50/52 swap or 2.8l m20?

any info on the two would be appreciated.. or any reccomendations

[Skafrog]

And the first time I have ever whipped it out:

I was wondering the same thing. However, there is an abundance of information on this topic if you use the search. Try and find the thread with about 25 links about m50 swaps, and then the other thread with the comprehensive 2.8 stroker questions.

Base Line, the m50 is better if you want to modify it down the road. The stock m50 isnt worth it IMO if you are going from an m20 to an m50. However, if you plan to upgrade the m50 before you put it in, then its better than the 2.8 stroker.

[rwh11385]

In his defense, the greatest stroker vs. swap threads were on E3S, and I searched and couldn't find many on here.

Pretty much engines break down to a) turbo b) stroker c) swaps
a) Turbo needs some effort, but there's several people with it on this forum
b) Strokers cost a lot for the HP you get. The 12V head limits the engine, but you wouldn't have to buy swap parts or all the labor.
c) Modern technology, greater potential. No timing belt, no valves to adjust.

Depends what exactly you want, and how much $$$ you have.

M50 with M3 cams are a really great source of power. ~220hp.
M20's max out usually around that number, where the M50 is just getting started.

[devarato]

i dont really want to turbo... there is something that appeals about the m50??

this may seem like a pretty vague question, but does the m50swap make for a nicer drive than the stroker?

[AdamF 88iS]

i dont really want to turbo... there is something that appeals about the m50??

this may seem like a pretty vague question, but does the m50swap make for a nicer drive than the stroker?

Of course it does. It's a smoother, quieter, more powerful motor. If you have the means to do it, then go.

[rwh11385]

I was throwing turbo in the ring just as it should be held as on the same level of choice as the other two options.....you don't have to consider it.

But I'd say driving a M50 daily would be nicer. More reliable, and smoother. No tapping valves, and all the rustic sounds.

[SlammedE30]

Fuckin 2V head.... :evil:

Go M50 over a 2.8L
-Ted

[tobybmw]

I am considering the same swap. As much as I would like the smoother running M50/S50 I prefer the more old school look which is why a 2.8+ M20 would look awsome and period correct. Either way they would be awsome .

Andy

[AdamF 88iS]

More reliable

Wrong. About the same as an M20 actually, if not a pinch worse due to an extremly bitchy cooling system; and tiny little headbolts that like to allow the headgasket to blow out when you track a lot. Vanos units like to get sticky sometimes too.

[rwh11385]

More reliable

Wrong. About the same as an M20 actually, if not a pinch worse due to an extremly bitchy cooling system; and tiny little headbolts that like to allow the headgasket to blow out when you track a lot. Vanos units like to get sticky sometimes too.

Are there any cooling issues besides the plastic water pump impeller?
Vanos I hear can be expensive to replace, but are rare. (Plus one could get a non-vanos to track)

[AdamF 88iS]

Also the plastic thermostat housing, and the E36 radiators that always crack at the necks and expansion tanks. Thats all somewhat fixable though. The main thing is the head/headbolts/headgasket situation which allows the car to overheat, leak coolant, and in some cases even crack the head. I have repeatedly seen, on mutliple different cars that are tracked regularly that this is the weakspot on the 50 series engine. For a street car they should be fine, but for a lot of track use they don't hold up as well as you'd hope. Euro S50s on the other hand...much stronger motors.

[Jon325i]

I've read some good things about non-Vanos M50s. They do lack a bit in low end torque since the cams can't adjust to shift the powercurve lower (a la Vanos), but their slight lack of low end power is made up for in a strong mid range punch and willingness to rev. A non-Vanos car can pull on a Vanos car once above 4000 on the tach. As for tuning this motor, there are some valve train upgrades you can do (hotter cams) plus some software to have this motor making nearly as much power as a Vanos M50 w/ M3 cams.

Another plus with the non-Vanos motor.....no Vanos! One less thing to break. And with hydraulic valves, a timing chain, and updated water pump (swap the plastic impeller for a metal one) and you have a pretty bulletproof mill ready to go to work. Lastly, the non-Vanos motors can typically be had for less money.

Jon

[rwh11385]

Adam, I never heard anything about headbolts. All the radiator, t-stat, water pump could be taken care of easily enough.

[e30Matt]

I've read some good things about non-Vanos M50s. They do lack a bit in low end torque since the cams can't adjust to shift the powercurve lower (a la Vanos), but their slight lack of low end power is made up for in a strong mid range punch and willingness to rev. A non-Vanos car can pull on a Vanos car once above 4000 on the tach. As for tuning this motor, there are some valve train upgrades you can do (hotter cams) plus some software to have this motor making nearly as much power as a Vanos M50 w/ M3 cams.

Another plus with the non-Vanos motor.....no Vanos! One less thing to break. And with hydraulic valves, a timing chain, and updated water pump (swap the plastic impeller for a metal one) and you have a pretty bulletproof mill ready to go to work. Lastly, the non-Vanos motors can typically be had for less money.

Jon

This is extremely true.

A common swap is moving the intake cam to the exhaust side and purchasing a 256deg intake cam, giving you M3 cam profiles for half the money. Also, NV motors are a little more forgiving when it comes to bore.

[rwh11385]

Jon, Matt, everyone: http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/vie...light=nonvanos
Long debate on Vanos vs Non-V

btw, I was driving a Z4 3.0L and I found that throttle response @ 1000 rpm owns.
That is the 24V advantage. Because wouldn't a stroker still have trouble being as lively as a 24V swap at lower rpms?