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    E30 Cabrio Project - Engine - Supsension - Brakes Discussion

    I'm going to be investing alot of money into my E30 Cabrio. I was going to buy a newer used car, like a 325ic 330ic or a Z4, but they don't have the potential the E30 has. My parents are happy with this decision as insurance rates stay down, and my dad hates dealerships.

    The car leaves for body work Friday and should be back by next saturday, it's having it's crash fixed, all dents removed, and doors painted. The front end is perfect and was painted in January. I will be keeping the diving boards, I like to keep the car looking stock, Euro swaps and plastic swaps are too common, so I figure, I'll be different and keep the diving boards.(Actually, they just protect the car well and I can bump into my friends cars)

    It will be an on going project for the next 2 years, it's being supported by my job and my uncle(who gets me used OEM parts for good prices).

    So I have a bunch of questions.

    Money is not really an issue, but keep it resonable, nothing stupid like a S54 twin turbo swap or an S14 swap. ;)

    1) Engine - The engine despite being strong right now will be going for a rebuild. I am just not happy knowing my engine has wear on it at 11x, 000 miles. A turbo project will be in the works at some point and I would like to have the motor ready. It will be running NA for about a year after rebuild, so I don't won't lower compression, 8.8 is fine for boost. I want the engine to rev very free, and would like a redline of 7,000 safely. I can think of injectors+MAF+independent engine management(I hear piggy backs don't cut it for turbos), Schrick 272 or 288 cam, and really nothing else. What other things should be done? Somebody suggested I O-Ring it with a copper head gasket for when I get the turbo, but would that be ok? The rebuild is being done by a family friend who knows M20's moderately well. (I do know some parts will need to by changed when I put a turbo on, like the aggressive cam...)

    I am really not wanting a swap, I like the M20 , and view it as a very reliable, sturdy, engine that is cheap. An S50/M50 is out of the question, I do not want those motors.

    2) Suspension - The car is a cabrio. It's heavy. People think I'm an idiot, but I like a very firm ride in a street car. I will be using 16 inch wheels. What springs do I buy if I want a nice drop? I do not want the car to sag in the back, a 1/2 inch of clearance between the outside of the fender and the tire all the way around is the look I want. I want very little body roll too. Could I get custom springs which are hard as hell or a ground control kit for my E30 Cabrio?

    With the body roll issue, does anybody know of any kind of bracing I can do for the cabrio? I don't know of any aftermarket sway bars and such.

    What other parts should I be looking at for improved cornering? I figure an E30 M3 steering rack would give me a better steering ratio, and M3 control arms. What else should I buy?

    From the outside body panel part of the fender to the wheel, I want a 1/2' gap.

    3) Brakes - Can I use an E28 master cylinder on a cabrio? And what rotors/pads would be good? I hear slotted is bad. A BBK not worth the price, IMO. Steel braided lines are already purchased.

    4) Driveline - What's the stickiest clutch I could get for an E30? And would a 2.93 LSD be smart for an E30 pushing alot of power?

    I know it sounds like a foolish project, but instead of buying a newer car, I'm rebuilding my E30. I view that as a much more fun idea.

    Thanks alot!

    #2
    1) Engine - I have some comments on the cam and head gasket.. If you're going turbo on it (and you will) then I would suggest getting a cam made for the job. It will probably be more expensive than a Schrick 272/288 but why not get the real deal? I really makes a big difference when you slap on the turbo. Contact either of the two guys named Andreas at Pure Performance Factory : http://www.pure-pf.com/
    O-ringing the head should be on top of your list, definately. Combine that with a normal head gasket and you're way better off than if you used a copper head gasket and no O-ringing. It's all about avoiding detonation, you can blow any head gasket. The best way to achieve reliability is to replace the Motronic and put engine management in there that can handle forced induction, like you plan to do.

    3) Brakes - Going to autocross a lot? If yes then I'd look into better brakes. But I've got no idea of what would be good for your car.

    4) Driveline - Get a Sachs "618" sport pressure plate and use the original clutch plate, that will be a very easy to drive combination. I know some swedish E30 turbos run with this combination. It will hold for at least 300 hp, if you want more you can get a clutch plate with sinter pucks (might be difficult to drive in town, spring dampened plate helps).
    If you can get a pressure plate from an E30 325 iX or and M3, those will be stronger than original but weaker than the Sachs "618". Another option is to use the original pressure plate and a clutch plate with 4 sinter pucks, when that combination doesn't hold power you can go for a larger pressure plate.
    Edit: A 2.93 LSD is good to have with a very strong engine, it might be a touch to low, difficult to say until you try it.

    /Mattias

    Comment


      #3
      1) Engine: For a forced induction you do not want a lot of cam overlap, so cancel the highlift Schrick. And for note www.bmp.com has 284/284 Scrick's in the bargin section for $237.00.

      Turbo, I would suggest you contact TCD, Their kit should be ready for market by now. Everyone here has seen the numbers and his efforts to bring a good quality unit to market.

      2) Brakes: I just listed a thread about this. I might be buying a Tarox 6 piston set. But depends on what size wheel I need to put on to use them. I don't want to go bigger than a 16". If I need to I pass on the units listed in the thread.

      3) Clutch: Spec makes a nice good unit for the money, there was a GB on these what happened?
      https://www.facebook.com/BentOverRacing

      Comment


        #4
        for suspension, how about H&R race and koni SA? that would be pretty stiff.. :) and not too much of a drop either.

        or, get ground controls if you are really picky about your ride height, and you can get any spring rate you want with those. they also come with konis.
        Build thread

        Bimmerlabs

        Comment


          #5
          bmp linky

          Originally posted by M-technik-3
          1) And for note www.bmp.com has 284/284 Scrick's in the bargin section for $237.00.
          try www.bmpd.com instead...
          I completely agree with this advice though. I've been looking into a hack turbo setup for my eta for a while, and came up with the same answers as you are getting here.

          Comment


            #6
            what the fuck is your reasoning against a 24v motor? The m20 blows ass, and why are you rebuilding it at 110k, you're throwing money away.
            You have a cabrio, you're going to get body roll/flex.
            silly asshole
            edit: bilstein>koni

            Comment


              #7
              As far as suspension goes, sounds like you are pretty picky about ride height, so coil-overs are the way to go. If I were you I would do either a 450f/600r Ground Control set-up or look into the KW coil-overs.
              '91 318is
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                You're not really going to be able to have a gap with a convertable unless you get coilovers. Hell, on my light 318, the H&R sports drop the rear to basically 1/4" over the tire.
                The BMW 318 is back. With a vengeance.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bryson
                  what the fuck is your reasoning against a 24v motor? The m20 blows ass, and why are you rebuilding it at 110k, you're throwing money away.
                  You have a cabrio, you're going to get body roll/flex.
                  silly asshole
                  edit: bilstein>koni
                  Bryson: Immature people like you are why I don't hang around this forum as much as I used to. I don't care if you're 16 years old or 35, that comment was not called for.

                  A more modern M50 engine would be money well spent but definately not cheaper than rebuilding your M20, and I would spend money on blue-printing it to make sure that it is happy revving 7000 rpm at 1 bar boost. The crank has to handle the power reliably and will only do that if the motor is balanced properly, so make sure it is.

                  /Mattias

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by iXer
                    Originally posted by Bryson
                    what the fuck is your reasoning against a 24v motor? The m20 blows ass, and why are you rebuilding it at 110k, you're throwing money away.
                    You have a cabrio, you're going to get body roll/flex.
                    silly asshole
                    edit: bilstein>koni
                    Bryson: Immature people like you are why I don't hang around this forum as much as I used to. I don't care if you're 16 years old or 35, that comment was not called for.

                    A more modern M50 engine would be money well spent but definately not cheaper than rebuilding your M20, and I would spend money on blue-printing it to make sure that it is happy revving 7000 rpm at 1 bar boost. The crank has to handle the power reliably and will only do that if the motor is balanced properly, so make sure it is.

                    /Mattias
                    Bryson speaks the truth. You can come across M50s for a mere $600-800. Rebuilding would be about the same price. Why would the M20 be cheaper? A turbo M20 would cost the same amount as the 24V swap.

                    Aaron

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by aaron_silva
                      Originally posted by iXer
                      Originally posted by Bryson
                      what the fuck is your reasoning against a 24v motor? The m20 blows ass, and why are you rebuilding it at 110k, you're throwing money away.
                      You have a cabrio, you're going to get body roll/flex.
                      silly asshole
                      edit: bilstein>koni
                      Bryson: Immature people like you are why I don't hang around this forum as much as I used to. I don't care if you're 16 years old or 35, that comment was not called for.

                      A more modern M50 engine would be money well spent but definately not cheaper than rebuilding your M20, and I would spend money on blue-printing it to make sure that it is happy revving 7000 rpm at 1 bar boost. The crank has to handle the power reliably and will only do that if the motor is balanced properly, so make sure it is.

                      /Mattias


                      Bryson speaks the truth. You can come across M50s for a mere $600-800. Rebuilding would be about the same price. Why would the M20 be cheaper? A turbo M20 would cost the same amount as the 24V swap.

                      Aaron
                      Turbo M20 also gives you more power then a N/A M50

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I bet you a turbo M20 would be more fun to drive too.
                        The BMW 318 is back. With a vengeance.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Wow! Thanks for the replies! I have some more questions and comments though.

                          I want an M20 rebuild + turbo it's cost effetive and a Turbo M20 will give me alot more power than a N/A M50 swap and rebuild. It will even give me more power than a boosted M50, as the M50 can't take boost without severe mods. Another really big reason for keeping the M20 is weight. The M50/S50, weighing 100lbs more than my M20. My Cabrio is heavy enough!

                          An S50 swap would be a waste of money, 5k for a good S50+Trans, and what, 7k for a turbo kit? That would equeate to an unreliable motor that costs alot and doesn't even put out as much power as a Turbo M20.

                          This is a chart I made for a thread at BFc. I did not include rebuild prices, because I wasn't thinking about it at the time, but if I was to swap, I would have that engine rebuilt also.

                          M20+ No Trans - $500 - ZERO for other stuff - +ZEROlbs of extra weight - 143rwhp - $3.5 per rwHP - $500 Total

                          M20+Trans - $800 - ZERO for other stuff - +ZEROlbs of extra weight - 143rwhp - $5.6 per rwHP - $800 Total

                          M20+Trans+Chip - $925 - ZERO for other stuff - +ZEROlbs of extra weight - 153rwhp - $6 per rwHPp - $925 Total

                          M20+ No Trans+ TCD Stage One turbo - $4375 - ZERO for other stuff - +ZEROlbs of extra weight - 259rwhp - $16.9 per rwHP - $4,375 Total

                          M20+ Trans+ TCD Stage One turbo - $4675 - ZERO for other stuff - +ZEROlbs of extra weight - 259rwhp - $18.0 per rwHP - $4,675 Total

                          M42+Trans+Differential - $1,200 - $500 for other stuff - -75lbs of weight - 117rwhp - $14.5 per rwHP - $1700 Total

                          M42(Updt)+Trans+Differential+DASC - $4500 - $500 for other stuff - -75lbs of weight - 187rwhp - $26.7 per rwHP - $5000 Total

                          M50+Trans - $1,500 - $1,000 for other stuff - +100lbs of extra weight - 163rwhp - $15.3 per rwHP - $2500 Total

                          S50+Trans - $4,000 - $1,000 for other stuff - +100lbs of extra weight - 204rwhp - $24.5 per rwHP - $5000 Total

                          Notes:
                          - Other stuff means additional parts not included with engine and tranny for the SWAP, like motor mounts, custom fabs needed, etc...
                          - M42 and M44 need a differential because to my understanding they only mate up with small case differentials, not medium case like the M20 has
                          - Prices were conservative and based off the average price of used parts found on the forums except for the FI systems which were priced new
                          - rwHP specs were done by multiplying the crank HP by .85 which equaled to a %15 loss
                          - The chip on the M20 added 12 crank HP
                          - The updated M42 MUST be used with the DASC Kit as the old M42 will not work. The M44 was more expensive.

                          The way I see it, the M20 with minimal internal work and a strong turbo(20PSI) would be a very cost effective solution. An M50/S50 would need lots of internal work to be putting down 340rwhp, and lets face it, they're not as reliable as the M20. I just don't see why anybody would ditch the M20 if they are going for a turbo project.

                          About the rebuild. I hear a copper head gasket is good with O-ringing, better than a regular gasket with O-ringing. Is that false? In addition, would a MegaSquirt setup be ok for the independent engine management? I hear it's not that expensive. Blueprinting is pricey, I'll see what I can do with that. I'm willing to spend about 4,000 to 5,000 on the rebuild(labor isn't expensive). Is there anything else I should consider for the rebuild? Any light weight parts that aren't that exepnsive I could use for a more free revving engine?

                          Exhaust - What should I do about this? I have no clue. :?:

                          Boost Control - I don't want to run high boost constantly, what's the best way the set this from inside the cockpit? Like when I am stopped at a light.

                          Would a Spec clutch hold up ok? It looks like a clutch plate with sinter pucks might be my only option. Also a 2.93 LSD might be a little low as I figure it would give me a theoretical topspeed of 180+mph... My cabrio won't go over 120, ever. Maybe a 3.46 LSD, if it is available? A 4.10 would be alot of fun, but not practical. ;)

                          Brakes - I want better brakes because the car will need to stop with all the extra power. I would like to Autocross it, but I do not want to put in a roll bar as it is just hideous on an E30. I'll consider it if the car handle well enough to take it to Auto-X. I also have an E36 318i that I could use for Auto-X. So I'll see how that goes.

                          Suspension - I don't know if a GC kit is made for my cabrio. Where can I found out if one is? bmwpower on BFc was nice enough to tell me his cabrio has an Eibach Prokit with Bilstein Sports and I like his ride height. He has 16" wheels, I don't know if the springs are firm enough though.

                          Thanks for the replies guys. The car goes in, in 12 hours! It's going to take a long time to get this done, but it should be fun, and I'm learning already. :D

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by GreekDriver

                            M20+ No Trans+ TCD Stage One turbo - $4375 - ZERO for other stuff - +ZEROlbs of extra weight - 259rwhp - $16.9 per rwHP - $4,375 Total

                            M50+Trans - $1,500 - $1,000 for other stuff - +100lbs of extra weight - 163rwhp - $15.3 per rwHP - $2500 Total

                            Suspension - I don't know if a GC kit is made for my cabrio. Where can I found out if one is? bmwpower on BFc was nice enough to tell me his cabrio has an Eibach Prokit with Bilstein Sports and I like his ride height. He has 16" wheels, I don't know if the springs are firm enough though.

                            Alright, first off I agree with the fact that the m20 is a great motor for FI, no doubt about that. There will certainly be extra weight added with a turbo set-up though.

                            My M50 swap is going to cost about $1200 all said and done, so your prices there are way off. You can use the stock transmission as well.

                            The GC kit works on all non-M e30, except for the early 318's I believe. The only difference on a cabrio would be that you would want to raise the spring rates for the extra weight.
                            '91 318is
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Brew

                              Alright, first off I agree with the fact that the m20 is a great motor for FI, no doubt about that. There will certainly be extra weight added with a turbo set-up though.

                              My M50 swap is going to cost about $1200 all said and done, so your prices there are way off. You can use the stock transmission as well.

                              The GC kit works on all non-M e30, except for the early 318's I believe. The only difference on a cabrio would be that you would want to raise the spring rates for the extra weight.
                              I had no clue it was off. I'll look into that and change it, thanks for the heads up and the info about the GC. :D

                              Comment

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