Just completed swap!! but front wheel not centered, what´s wrong ?? Please help!

[atmosferas]

Hi! First post here!
Just completed my full swap (1999 E36 323ti complete euro M52 engine, front and rear suspension, steering, everything !! even working ABS, ASC and EWS !!) and I am T H R I L L E D ! ! I just love my E30, it´s no S50, but it feels a LOT faster than my original 316i 100hp engine !!!, I will soon post all the story, but I am having trouble with the front wheels not centered!!

I did everything I read, E30M3 offset bushings, E36M3 96+ control arms and have my E36 323ti sachs front shocks with some AC Schnitzer springs a friend had laying around (which I am not sure are the correct application, but will soon get changed). But the wheel is just not centered. I think THR eyeballs could help, but want the suspension to be as comfortable as possible since I never track the car, and streets in Mexico could be better...

So, why are the wheels not centered ? And what can be done ? I´ve been thinking about slotting the mounting holes in the oem eyeball arms...

Please help !!! I REALLY did my searches before !! I´ve been reading the forum for almost two years!!

[Fast Frankie]

stock steering rack? what do you mean by not centered?

Is it the caster, toe or camber that is out?

[Aptyp]

caster is out. You're running e36 spindles, and you need e36 m3 ones.

[atmosferas]

Yep... Caster is out (see pic 1). Steering Rack is from the E36 323ti.

Any other way to correct caster without the e36 m3 spindles ?

[etxxz]

custom fab your lollipop bushings to bring that CA further out.

[Aptyp]

Yep... Caster is out (see pic 1). Steering Rack is from the E36 323ti.

Any other way to correct caster without the e36 m3 spindles ?

Custom fab control arms to move spindle 1 inch forward. Been working on a way to do this a while back, but gave up once I got m3 spindles.

[clavinZERO]

Aptyp and others have hit the nail on the head... E36 M3 spindles/steering knuckles are what you need.

Since you plan to use different springs soon, you might consider getting the e36 m3 front struts to fit BOTH the proper spindles/knuckles and e30 springs too!

[atmosferas]

So, to sum it up... find E36M3 spindles/knuckles and E36M3 front struts... and perhaps this way I can go back to my Tokico adjustable shocks from my E30 in the front ?..or fabricate new lollipop bushings to give the proper caster.

Would the THR eyeballs help more than the offset bushings I have now?

[clavinZERO]

The E30 front shock inserts are not compatible with the E36 M3 ones unless you are a real fabricator kind of guy... The E36 struts are a complete assembly, they do not come apart.

The key here is that the valving on E30 bilsteins and E36 M3 bilsteins is the same AND the spring diameter of E30 and E36 M3 springs are the same on the front struts.

[MikeDE]

caster is out. You're running e36 spindles, and you need e36 m3 ones.

While compiling for my 5-lug swap, I came across this....

Its a myth. M knuckles and non M knuckles are the same (relation of the centerline of the spindle to the centerline of the balljoint)

The only difference I saw when comparing them side by side was the offset of the brake caliper was completely different.

....in the 5-lug swap sticky. Didn't copy the posters' name, and nobody disagreed with the info given...?????

[etxxz]

The E30 front shock inserts are not compatible with the E36 M3 ones unless you are a real fabricator kind of guy... The E36 struts are a complete assembly, they do not come apart.

The key here is that the valving on E30 bilsteins and E36 M3 bilsteins is the same AND the spring diameter of E30 and E36 M3 springs are the same on the front struts.

this is false.

You can put inerts on the e36 struts. search google and even youtube has a diy. If you want to use shorter e30 struts.. like I did for $$ reasons.. you have to space the strut with a steel pipe insert. that is all.

e36 strut inserts have a bolt on the bottom to hold them in. I hopped the top 2inches of my e30 strut (the collar nut) and transfered it over to the e36 strut. that is all. Happy moddin

-etxx

[Aptyp]

While compiling for my 5-lug swap, I came across this....

Its a myth. M knuckles and non M knuckles are the same (relation of the centerline of the spindle to the centerline of the balljoint)

The only difference I saw when comparing them side by side was the offset of the brake caliper was completely different.

....in the 5-lug swap sticky. Didn't copy the posters' name, and nobody disagreed with the info given...?????

If it was a myth, I wouldn't do both swaps. I did it with e36 spindles and then with e36m3 ones. Difference is incredible.... I am able to run 225/45-17 tires, which was impossible before. Don't spread false information, unless you've done the swap both ways.

this is false.

You can put inerts on the e36 struts. search google and even youtube has a diy. If you want to use shorter e30 struts.. like I did for $$ reasons.. you have to space the strut with a steel pipe insert. that is all.

e36 strut inserts have a bolt on the bottom to hold them in. I hopped the top 2inches of my e30 strut (the collar nut) and transfered it over to the e36 strut. that is all. Happy moddin

-etxx

only Bilsteins have that bolt on the bottom, stock e36 (even m3) struts DO NOT.

Here's where you're talking out of your ass, though. e30 insert is 17" long while e36 insert (after housing is cut up) is only 16". If you're saying that you added that extra inch to the top of e36 housing, then you took that inch away from strut travel... You're riding on bump stops. The fact that you had to add a spacer makes no sense.

If you're talking about my other thread and about what I did, then say so, and stop making shit up. I used e30 iX strut inserts, 2" spacer and had to cut 1" off, because iX inserts are only 13" long.



I hate when people say something without any information to back up what they're saying. It's damaging to the community and annoying to people who use this information to mod their cars. :hitler:

[Hellabad]

M knuckles and non M knuckles are the same (relation of the centerline of the spindle to the centerline of the balljoint)

That part is the same, but the relative angle of the steering arm (and therefore the tie rod end) is different as viewed from the side.

The "strut bracket" is tilted back farther on the e36M because the top of the strut is farther back on an e36M3 than it is on any e30 or on the non-M e36.

This is why the GC "e36 on e30" kit has different strut geometry for e36M and e36 non-M.


For the OP with the wheel set back, you need 1996-1999 e36M3 lower control arms ONLY. Nothing else will work. You cannot get all of the forward offset you need with just the lollipop. Props to Jon at Treehouse, he figured this out.

Jay from GC

[etxxz]

Here's where you're talking out of your ass, though. e30 insert is 17" long while e36 insert (after housing is cut up) is only 16". If you're saying that you added that extra inch to the top of e36 housing, then you took that inch away from strut travel... You're riding on bump stops. The fact that you had to add a spacer makes no sense.

If you're talking about my other thread and about what I did, then say so, and stop making shit up. I used e30 iX strut inserts, 2" spacer and had to cut 1" off, because iX inserts are only 13" long.



I hate when people say something without any information to back up what they're saying. It's damaging to the community and annoying to people who use this information to mod their cars. :hitler:

http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=114635

you're a moron. take it down a notch. MY THREAD actually.

used an e30 Koni insert without taking any travel away or elongating the strut. I hate people that think there is one way to do things.

[craz azn]

If it was a myth, I wouldn't do both swaps. I did it with e36 spindles and then with e36m3 ones. Difference is incredible.... I am able to run 225/45-17 tires, which was impossible before. Don't spread false information, unless you've done the swap both ways.

That person that said it was a myth was me. And I still stand by what I said(for now, only Jay could convince me otherwise, as his suspension/chassis knowledge is much more vast than all of us in this thread combined). Can you measure roughly how much you gained? Any current dead-on side shots of your car to show the difference in wheelbase (and not quarter views which hide everything)?

That part is the same, but the relative angle of the steering arm (and therefore the tie rod end) is different as viewed from the side.

The "strut bracket" is tilted back farther on the e36M because the top of the strut is farther back on an e36M3 than it is on any e30 or on the non-M e36.

This is why the GC "e36 on e30" kit has different strut geometry for e36M and e36 non-M.


For the OP with the wheel set back, you need 1996-1999 e36M3 lower control arms ONLY. Nothing else will work. You cannot get all of the forward offset you need with just the lollipop. Props to Jon at Treehouse, he figured this out.

Jay from GC

Hi Jay, just looking for some clarification. I am under the impression what is happening here changing the strut pins/bracket/location will change the caster? If the ball joint location is fixed, how would changing the caster change the wheel location, especially since the wheel is closer to the bottom pivot (aka ball joint)? I ask because I cannot see how changing caster can affect wheelbase so significantly (over 10mm?!!) Or is there some angle I am missing out on here?