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Coilovers make uncentered wheels worse?

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    Coilovers make uncentered wheels worse?

    So, I installed the GC e36 on e30 coilover kit on my e30 earlier this week. What I seem to have now is that the front wheels are even further back in the wheel well. Is it possible that just adding the coilovers would move the wheel back?

    Thoughts?
    1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
    1985 535is Zinno on Black
    1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
    1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
    1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

    #2
    Yes, did you buy the kit new or used? What you're seeing is a caster change... are you supposed to use offest cab's with that setup?
    Valley Motorwerks
    1988 E30M3

    sigpic

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      #3
      If you have camber/caster plates, yes--but you should be able to push the camber plates forward for stock caster levels too. More caster is good by the way, if I were you I'd get some offset control arm bushings to push the wheels forward a bit (and add even MORE caster).
      paint sucks

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        #4
        changing the caster at the top is going to make minimal difference at the bottom.
        Build thread

        Bimmerlabs

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          #5
          The GC coilovers are new. I already have the M3 offset CAB's in there. I have these on there:
          http://store.bimmerworld.com/motorsp...sets-p176.aspx
          Last edited by carlb; 05-25-2012, 12:13 PM.
          1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
          1985 535is Zinno on Black
          1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
          1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
          1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by nando View Post
            changing the caster at the top is going to make minimal difference at the bottom.
            I'm thinking that it might be the shortened strut housings the GC coilovers use have, in effect, shifted the caster back. It's the only thing I can think of that might make a difference.

            But, if so, how to solve?
            1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
            1985 535is Zinno on Black
            1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
            1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
            1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

            Comment


              #7
              Exactly, the shortness is pushing the wheel further back.

              What 5 lug setup do you have in the front?
              BimmerHeads
              Classic BMW Specialists
              Santa Clarita, CA

              www.BimmerHeads.com

              Comment


                #8
                you need late model e36 M3 control arms. that is all.

                Comment


                  #9
                  In for an answer, I'm about to buy the same setup
                  Sticky:True e36 one touch windows DIY

                  1990 M3
                  1992 Mtech (S50 + 5 Lug)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by yanal View Post
                    In for an answer, I'm about to buy the same
                    setup
                    The answer you're waiting for was given in the post above yours... 96-98 E36M3 wishbones, along with E36M3 knuckles. They will push the bottom ball joint geometry forward to close to the original 4 lug specs. Regular E36 stuff or E30 wishbones for that matter do not correct the caster geometry. When you add a shortened strut housing into the mix, you change the caster even more and if you do not move the lower ball joint geometry forward to compensate, you end up thinking that the coilovers made it worse. In fact, if the proper setup is not installed at the point of the coilover setup install, then you've started off wrong to begin with and only added to the problem with the shortened housings. Bimmerworld did have the E36M3 knuckles on sale for a long time at ~$40 a piece. Get a set of 96-98 E36M3 wishbones and almost all of your excessive caster issue will be gone. I did a lot of research about 5 lug swaps and full coilover setups before I did mine. BTW, I have a set of lower 96-98 E36M3 wishbones, if you can't find any. Any more ???'s, just ask. I can probably dig up part numbers for all of the parts from my notes...

                    Garey


                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'll check again, but I'm under the impression that I have all e36 M3 stuff up front. I actually have new 96+ e36 M3 control arms and spindles in the garage but when I went to go replace them, the parts on the car already were the same.

                      I'll take pictures and post them up today or tomorrow.
                      1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
                      1985 535is Zinno on Black
                      1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
                      1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
                      1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I would check all of your part numbers very closely. The parts look the same at a glance, but when critical measurements are taken, there are big differences. The part numbers for the correct spindles are 31 21 2 227 907/908. Bimmerworld still has them on sale for $44.99 each, which is a steal considering the list price of $299 each.
                        The part numbers for the correct wishbones are 31 12 2 228 461/462. Alternatively, the Z3M arms can be used, which carry the exact same part numbers, save the last 3, which are 465/466.

                        Make sure that you have these parts, as they are the only parts that will work to achieve the correct wheel caster. If you do not have the M stamped in the front caliper, then you don't have the correct spindles, as the regular E36 calipers don't work on the M spindles and vice-versa. If you have not seen it, follow the guide in the link. It's all correct info and the parts work. I have all of it on my car and I have 2" shortened housings and my wheel is only slightly behind center, so I'm speaking from first-hand experience, not just hearsay...

                        http://www.extradrei.com/5lug.html

                        G/L man...

                        Garey


                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks. I appreciate the help guys. I've spent time on that website before. It is very helpful. To answer some of your questions with pictures.

                          Spindles? I have M3 brakes on there now. Plus, I did double check the spindles before I knew that M3 brakes wouldn't fit on non-M3 spindles.


                          As far as the control arms are concerned. Here's a pic of the numbers on my new 96+ M3 control arms from Bimmerworld (bought before I knew what was on the car):


                          The numbers on the control arms on the vehicle are an exact match:


                          Did they have the same stampings on the M3 and non-M3 control arms? Or same stampings on early and late control arms, which might be what's getting me in trouble by just verifying the stamping on the piece.

                          I suppose I could just change them and see anyway. Waste of time?
                          Last edited by carlb; 05-26-2012, 03:00 PM.
                          1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
                          1985 535is Zinno on Black
                          1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
                          1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
                          1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Finally got the control arms off. Those things are clingy like a mofo. Anyway, they look identical to the new ones. So, if the spindles are correct and the control arms are correct as well as the offset bushing, what's next?

                            I will reassemble with new parts just because I'm sure I ruined that control arm as I beat the shit out of it to get it off.

                            Pics:


                            1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
                            1985 535is Zinno on Black
                            1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
                            1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
                            1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So, it looks like my spindles may in fact be different. Although my M brakes bolt right up to them. Here's a shot of the spindle that was on the car and the new spindle from bimmerworld. They have different stampings on the back but I can't tell any difference with the eyeball test.

                              What do you guys think? Is this the culprit?



                              I don't know if I'll have time to replace right now.
                              1985 M635csi Black on Buffalo
                              1985 535is Zinno on Black
                              1985 M635csi White on Pacific Blue
                              1988 M3 Lachssilber on Black (sold)
                              1987 M3 Zinno on Black (totaled)

                              Comment

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