Another 5lug option? | Now for the rear too!

[kronus]

I'm not sure that dick swinging and trashing someone else's products makes yours 'quality'.

The inner bolt is reverse threaded.

What keeps yours from coming loose? What's the offset change with your sleeves? What rotors fit? Do they clear the tie rod knuckles? Do they come with caliper brackets? What are the machining tolerances? Why is the hex nut size so large?

[norMcal]

I'm not sure that dick swinging and trashing someone else's products makes yours 'quality'.

The inner bolt is reverse threaded.

What keeps yours from coming loose? What's the offset change with your sleeves? What rotors fit? Do they clear the tie rod knuckles? Do they come with caliper brackets? What are the machining tolerances? Why is the hex nut size so large?

Sorry if it came across that way, but I'm not the first that pointed out the flaws. Do you even know what kind of steel and what grade bolt that kit you just bought uses?

I know a thing or two about machining, I'll be happy to share some references, but don't want to come across as dick swinging. I got caliper brackets as well, but it seems that it really depends on what brakes you want to use. These sleeves are from the same as from the 5-lug kit that is posted in the group buy with all the blue anodized spacers, brackets, centering rings etc. I'm the one that machined all those.

[kronus]

Just saying, something more substantial and informative would probably be received more positively. Historically we haven't had great results here when manufacturers butt heads with each other about whose product is less dumb.

The kit I got came with class 10,9 bolts. The machining on the sleeves is good; I cannot find any faults. I do not know what grade steel they're made of, but would be curious to hear what the OP says about that.

I'm still curious about my questions.

[norMcal]

I'll send you a PM with all the answers

[Max399]

Ok, so i called the supplier to ask about the material they are using. I did not get the answer i wanted, because he told me he cant say it, all i got told is that it is construction steel (If i translated it right to English?), and for sure not the cheapest Russian St3 one (Dont know a US standart for it). And that its coated in Zinc.
Sorry i cant give a better answer.
As already mentioned, the bearing nut is hold in place by the counter-tapped bolt.
The bolt is class 10.9.

Regarding the 'copies' - i do not see something copied, the idea is not new, the bearing nut is different, the bolt that holds it in place is also different from yours, the caliper adapter is similar, but cmon can you do it differently?
It's like calling all the aftermarket parts copies of original ones..

[norMcal]

Ok, so i called the supplier to ask about the material they are using. I did not get the answer i wanted, because he told me he cant say it, all i got told is that it is construction steel (If i translated it right to English?), and for sure not the cheapest Russian St3 one (Dont know a US standart for it). And that its coated in Zinc.
Sorry i cant give a better answer.
As already mentioned, the bearing nut is hold in place by the counter-tapped bolt.
The bolt is class 10.9.

Regarding the 'copies' - i do not see something copied, the idea is not new, the bearing nut is different, the bolt that holds it in place is also different from yours, the caliper adapter is similar, but cmon can you do it differently?
It's like calling all the aftermarket parts copies of original ones..

I didn't mean they aren't allowed to copy the idea and make a different version. I don't have a problem with that. I just meant it is a cheap copy, because of the design. Our parts consist of two items. Less moving parts is better on something that can come apart. Also it is clearly more difficult to manufacture and more like a factory part, with the face groove and the thin wall that allows you to bend it in to secure it. The fact that the parts are zinc plated already tells me that it is not right, because we used steel that contains chrome, so it won't rust and therefor does not need zinc. Also, Zinc plating isn't very accurate. It varies a lot more than the tolerance of that part should allow. In other words. They have to make the fit fairly loose, in order to make sure it will still fit on the spindle after plating, because they won't know if the plater will build up .0005 per side or .001 (just as an example). So you might get lucky on a set here or there, but I would bet that some will be sloppy. Our parts are held to a tolerance of .0003" in diamter. Bearings are usually held at least that close and there is no way that they were able to get anywhere near that with Zinc plating.

[Max399]

I didn't mean they aren't allowed to copy the idea and make a different version. I don't have a problem with that. I just meant it is a cheap copy, because of the design. Our parts consist of two items. Less moving parts is better on something that can come apart. Also it is clearly more difficult to manufacture and more like a factory part, with the face groove and the thin wall that allows you to bend it in to secure it. The fact that the parts are zinc plated already tells me that it is not right, because we used steel that contains chrome, so it won't rust and therefor does not need zinc. Also, Zinc plating isn't very accurate. It varies a lot more than the tolerance of that part should allow. In other words. They have to make the fit fairly loose, in order to make sure it will still fit on the spindle after plating, because they won't know if the plater will build up .0005 per side or .001 (just as an example). So you might get lucky on a set here or there, but I would bet that some will be sloppy. Our parts are held to a tolerance of .0003" in diamter. Bearings are usually held at least that close and there is no way that they were able to get anywhere near that with Zinc plating.

I'l agree with you, the thin wall is more difficult to machine than the ones i offer, yes. But you don't always need to go the hard way, the counter-threaded bolt that this design is using will hold just as good. Actually not much is needed to hold it in place, considering that the factory torque spec is that high. If you don't trust the bolt - you can always add some kind of glue like Loctite to lock the bearing in place.
I don't say your adapters are better or worse, it's just a different price range. The goal of your adapters is to provide as original design as BMW would use itself, and that's why it harder to make, thus costs more. The ones i offer are using different ways to lock in place and are meant to give a relatively cheap option for us guys, here in Europe who did not have that many M3's. (If im not mistaken there's only 2 E30 M3's here in Lithuania). They are being installed in sports cars here, they have been tested and are proven working.
So is it cheap? Yes, definitely, that was the goal, to make it cheaper than non-existent M parts here. Is it a bad knockoff? I would not say so, everyone has his own vision, so the machine shop that made them just thought this was a better design.

[norMcal]

Who said mine where a lot more expensive?

[norMcal]

I'l agree with you, the thin wall is more difficult to machine than the ones i offer, yes. But you don't always need to go the hard way, the counter-threaded bolt that this design is using will hold just as good. Actually not much is needed to hold it in place, considering that the factory torque spec is that high. If you don't trust the bolt - you can always add some kind of glue like Loctite to lock the bearing in place.
I don't say your adapters are better or worse, it's just a different price range. The goal of your adapters is to provide as original design as BMW would use itself, and that's why it harder to make, thus costs more. The ones i offer are using different ways to lock in place and are meant to give a relatively cheap option for us guys, here in Europe who did not have that many M3's. (If im not mistaken there's only 2 E30 M3's here in Lithuania). They are being installed in sports cars here, they have been tested and are proven working.
So is it cheap? Yes, definitely, that was the goal, to make it cheaper than non-existent M parts here. Is it a bad knockoff? I would not say so, everyone has his own vision, so the machine shop that made them just thought this was a better design.

Here is a thought. Isn't is plausible the reason BMW and other manufacturers have bent in tabs, not only to prevent the nut from coming lose, but also from getting tighter. You basically are using a reverse thread on one side so that it can't come lose should the bearing spin, but what prevents it from getting too tight? The recommended toque spec is there for a reason. Lets say the bearing starts seizing and it starts to tighten that bolt more and more, it will eventually snap the head off and the wheel will literally come off the car.

[Max399]

Who said mine where a lot more expensive?

As far as i see on the group buy, they are :)

Here is a thought. Isn't is plausible the reason BMW and other manufacturers have bent in tabs, not only to prevent the nut from coming lose, but also from getting tighter. You basically are using a reverse thread on one side so that it can't come lose should the bearing spin, but what prevents it from getting too tight? The recommended toque spec is there for a reason. Lets say the bearing starts seizing and it starts to tighten that bolt more and more, it will eventually snap the head off and the wheel will literally come off the car.

Coilovers are using almost the same design of two nuts for years, and nothing bad has happened yet.
Lets face it, the design is not bad, its just that its different, and not used so common.

[norMcal]

As far as i see on the group buy, they are :)

That includes a lot of other parts, hubs, bearings and on and on. The sleeves by them self are not much more than yours.

Coilovers are using almost the same design of two nuts for years, and nothing bad has happened yet.
Lets face it, the design is not bad, its just that its different, and not used so common.

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly, but if you are talking about something that just goes left and right, versus a bearing that spins continuously in the same direction, then that is nowhere near the same application.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to rain on your parade. It is possible that nothing bad will ever happen. However, personally I would not take a chance on something locking up or coming apart on a front wheel. I don't think that is a good place to try to save a few dollars.

[wazzu70]

FWIW, there is clearly a demand for just the spacer sleeves. You and Ron (Im assuming thats his name from the username) should just list a price for the adaptors only if you havent already.

Some people will buy yours, some people will buy the OPs. Everyone wins.


BTW, these sleeves have been available for years in Europe (at least a decade) by various companies using this exact same design. Its nothing new or unique.

[norMcal]

FWIW, there is clearly a demand for just the spacer sleeves. You and Ron (Im assuming thats his name from the username) should just list a price for the adaptors only if you havent already.

Some people will buy yours, some people will buy the OPs. Everyone wins.


BTW, these sleeves have been available for years in Europe (at least a decade) by various companies using this exact same design. Its nothing new or unique.

I already stated above that I can sell the sleeves individually and if you are interested to PM me.

[delatlanta1281]

I already stated above that I can sell the sleeves individually and if you are interested to PM me.

dude... who's fs ad is this? If you want to sell your product, bump YOUR thread. Until you are actually certified to talk safety on other people's threads, keep out of it.

[norMcal]

dude... who's fs ad is this? If you want to sell your product, bump YOUR thread. Until you are actually certified to talk safety on other people's threads, keep out of it.

I will. I still think it is important to point out potential safety/quality issues.