Ways to economically improve braking....

[Intense]

First off, yes I did read this thread on options for BBKs:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=65102

While I fundamentally agree that the brakes on the e30 are more than adequate. There are two reasons I want to investigate better braking options:
1) I have an iX. As far as I'm aware, the brake system wasn't upgraded from the regular e30s to the iX. In other words, my brake system is trying to stop a car 145 lbs heavier than most everyone else.
2) I tow with my car. Granted it's only a waverunner, it's still an additional 600 lbs of inertia behind me. Besides, someday soon (in the next couple years) I want to get a small powerboat, probably in the 17ft range.

So kids, what are my options. I've already planned for SS lines, DOT 4 fluid, Carbotech pads, and good rubber. What are the next steps?

thanks
mike

[Jon325i]

Depending on the weight of this 17ft boat you're pondering, I'm not sure if you want to be using an E30 as a tow vehicle (perhaps if its an aluminum boat with modest outboard.....but a SeaRay with a Mercruiser I/O is probably not advisable). Anyway, back on point. Improving E30 brakes can be done for modest money...I'm getting ready to redo mine. Here's what experience I can share...

SS brake lines: if your stock rubber lines are in very good shape don't bother swapping these out. Aftermarket SS lines may firm up pedal feel a bit but this only seems to be a necessity if you're tracking your car and working the brakes very hard.

Carbotech pads: I ran the XP8 pads on my car last year for three days at Thunderhill Raceway. These are track-oriented pads and the bite they provide (even when somewhat cold) is astonishing. I plan to get another set of identical pads when these wear out.....they're really good.

DOT 4 fluid: Just like my opinion regarding brake lines, a DOT 4 fluid is really good for track cars. Quality fluid such as Motul 600 offers some of the highest boiling points, but it is expensive. There are others for less money. Ate SuperBlue is another very good fluid that won't cost much. I've used this at the track as well....held up good but the Motul fluid did better when taxing the brakes often.

Tires: Unless you're going to be doing some auto-x or track days in your ix, don't waste your money on high performance rubber.....you'll just wear them out fast. A good all-season choice which I have been running for several months now is the Falken Ziex 512s. I have size 225/50s on factory 15x7 wheels. The last few weeks its been raining a lot here and the level of grip in the wet is quite good.....especially if I have at least 1/2 of fuel so there's a bit more weight on the rear.

In regards to BBKs, don't even entertain this idea.....its a costly option which I think you really don't need for your intended use(s). If you want to make cost-effective braking upgrades, I can advise going with the following...

Rotors: Ate PowerDiscs (available for the front only) and replacement OEM discs in back. I've had a pair of Ate PowerDiscs for quite some time.....I finally warped them out of shape on my last track day back in Nov. '05. I plan to replace these with Frozen rotors for the front only and replace the rear with Balo brand OEM rotors.

Pads: Carbotechs are great, but expensive. I've also used PBR Metal Masters with good results for quite a while. Mintex pads might be another choice worth considering.

Jon

[browntown]

well put, that's a slick auto-x setup, and should be fine for an IX with a waverunner. 17ft boat behind an e30 --- rediculous. Buy a beatup pickup.

[emmi]

DOT 4 fluid: Just like my opinion regarding brake lines, a DOT 4 fluid is really good for track cars. Quality fluid such as Motul 600 offers some of the highest boiling points, but it is expensive. There are others for less money. Ate SuperBlue is another very good fluid that won't cost much. I've used this at the track as well....held up good but the Motul fluid did better when taxing the brakes often.

my car manual tells me that the car needs DOT 4... soo uhh, i think its recommended that u use it for the street too...

[browntown]

my car manual tells me that the car needs DOT 4... soo uhh, i think its recommended that u use it for the street too...

motul and ate are all dot 4 compliant

[Axxe]

Just go with good pads with lots of bite, OEM blanks, grippy tires (not el-cheapo specials), and keep your distance. You'll be just fine, I mean, people tow with Safaris that barely have adequate brakes in the first place.

[Intense]

Depending on the weight of this 17ft boat you're pondering, I'm not sure if you want to be using an E30 as a tow vehicle (perhaps if its an aluminum boat with modest outboard.....but a SeaRay with a Mercruiser I/O is probably not advisable). Anyway, back on point. Improving E30 brakes can be done for modest money...I'm getting ready to redo mine. Here's what experience I can share...

SS brake lines: if your stock rubber lines are in very good shape don't bother swapping these out. Aftermarket SS lines may firm up pedal feel a bit but this only seems to be a necessity if you're tracking your car and working the brakes very hard.

Carbotech pads: I ran the XP8 pads on my car last year for three days at Thunderhill Raceway. These are track-oriented pads and the bite they provide (even when somewhat cold) is astonishing. I plan to get another set of identical pads when these wear out.....they're really good.

DOT 4 fluid: Just like my opinion regarding brake lines, a DOT 4 fluid is really good for track cars. Quality fluid such as Motul 600 offers some of the highest boiling points, but it is expensive. There are others for less money. Ate SuperBlue is another very good fluid that won't cost much. I've used this at the track as well....held up good but the Motul fluid did better when taxing the brakes often.

Tires: Unless you're going to be doing some auto-x or track days in your ix, don't waste your money on high performance rubber.....you'll just wear them out fast. A good all-season choice which I have been running for several months now is the Falken Ziex 512s. I have size 225/50s on factory 15x7 wheels. The last few weeks its been raining a lot here and the level of grip in the wet is quite good.....especially if I have at least 1/2 of fuel so there's a bit more weight on the rear.

In regards to BBKs, don't even entertain this idea.....its a costly option which I think you really don't need for your intended use(s). If you want to make cost-effective braking upgrades, I can advise going with the following...

Rotors: Ate PowerDiscs (available for the front only) and replacement OEM discs in back. I've had a pair of Ate PowerDiscs for quite some time.....I finally warped them out of shape on my last track day back in Nov. '05. I plan to replace these with Frozen rotors for the front only and replace the rear with Balo brand OEM rotors.

Pads: Carbotechs are great, but expensive. I've also used PBR Metal Masters with good results for quite a while. Mintex pads might be another choice worth considering.

Jon

The boat I'm looking at will be one of the jet-powered boats, so it'll be considerably lighter than conventional sterndrive/outboard boats. Although, it is fiberglass. Here's what I'm looking at: www.sugarsand.com . I'm looking at the Tango Extreme GT.

I like all your recommendations, with slight variations. For pads, I'm thinking the Bobcats will be more than sufficient. Although, I *might?* take the iX out for driving schools if they don't allow convertibles. Since my normal track car is an s2000. For fluid, a quality low-cost alternative to the ATE or Motul is the Havoline synthetic (in the gold bottle). I like this because: 1) I can find it anywhere (Pep Boys, AutoZone, wherever), 2) I've used it for the past 4 seasons for track days, auto-x, etc. and never boiled the fluid. It's good stuff AND cheap!

I hadn't thought about rotors. I'll look into the Ate ones. But tires, to me, are the most important part of the equation. Esp. if I'm not really going to be taxing the braking system. My only contact with the road would be the tires and therefore determine my ultimate grip. BTW, this was supported by the Car and Driver article a couple years ago.

Admittedly, the SS line are more of a feel/subjective thing. But, given that my car is 18 years old and SS lines are just as cost-effective as the oem rubber lines, why not?

[Simon S]

Admittedly, the SS line are more of a feel/subjective thing. But, given that my car is 18 years old and SS lines are just as cost-effective as the oem rubber lines, why not?

cheap vodka

[e304me]

maybe some better cooling for the track?

[AdironRider]

I dont think the ix would be the best choice for a tow vehicle. Hauling a small trailer with track tires is one thing, but a boat is a serious item to tow.

[fporro]

does improving padal feel counts ? if so, go for a 25mm MC from a e23 7 series, (750iL in my case).

[Intense]

I dont think the ix would be the best choice for a tow vehicle. Hauling a small trailer with track tires is one thing, but a boat is a serious item to tow.

The boat I'm looking at with trailer comes in around 1400 lbs. A class one hitch is rated for 2000 lbs. With nice smooth starts, the engine will have no problem towing the boat. Often times, the critical part of towing is the transmission and how much load it can take. If you ever shop for a truck, they always throw in a tranny cooler when you order the towing package.

All that being said, the most i'll be towing my boat is 30-odd miles. Relatively short distances. I'll just have to change my tranny and dif fluids more often than most, that's all.

For comparison, I used to tow my double ski trailer with two skis and gear with my WRX wagon. All told, the rig probably weighed close to 1200 lbs. And I never had any issues.

[Intense]

That's a great idea. How does that affect brake bias? Does it bolt up to the brake booster without modifications? I'm assuming the stock fluid reservior just bolts right up. It looks like the ports are in the right location to accept the hard lines......

does improving padal feel counts ? if so, go for a 25mm MC from a e23 7 series, (750iL in my case).

[fporro]

That's a great idea. How does that affect brake bias? Does it bolt up to the brake booster without modifications? I'm assuming the stock fluid reservior just bolts right up. It looks like the ports are in the right location to accept the hard lines......

brake bias it's same on my cabrio, but, i went with BBK from IE.

it bolts right up, no modifications whatsoever, you can even use your oem reservoir., basically same MC as on M3's.

don't forget to install a O Ring between MC & BB, $ 3.50.
2 model;s to choose from, Garwin (yellow sticker on BB) or the other one (blue sticker on BB), you could use the old one too.

[ptownTSI]

does any e23 7 series have that master cylinder or just the 750il? i didnt know the e23 came in a 750il. they are the 1977-1987 7 series. did you mean to say the E32, which was from 1988-1994 or so?