BBK (Appropriate), Fit, Brands

[winstontj]

I suppose I could email Lee directly but I put this out here to ask about the appropriateness (if that's a word) of a BBK on a street car. Car is 97.5% street only use. I go for long spirited drives, will attend some driving schools & really push the car but this will not (in current form) be an autox car or track car. With that said I have stumbled on a set of 5 very nice, recently refurbished, 15" basket weave rims.

What is the next step up from stock that many of you guys run? (Lee or others - Similar to the Volvo/Girling upgrade or vented front / 250mm rear upgrade on a 2002) I would like a little better heat disbursement for spirited driving and a little firmer pedal feel. The car already has SS brake lines. Perhaps could I just upgrade the brake ducts?

Finally - will a "one up from stock" BBK fit under either 14" or 15" basket weaves? I'd like to use the 14"ers for winter studded snows and the 15"ers for summer driving. I would be open to purchasing a second set of 15" wheels for winter driving as well but would like to know about fitment ASAP because I need tires and am about to decide on the purchase of new tires for the 14" or 15" wheels and tires.....

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!

[Massive Lee]

For street, you will not need any BBK. Simply make sure you have the ATE calipers/carriers and not the wimpy Girling ones. Check that your pads are not more than 50% worn at the front and back (that is because the more the pads are worn, the further the caliper is on the guiding pins, which leads to extra flex), and that the system is properly bled. You can remove the front heatshield if you experience a bit of overheating. And that's it.

If you feel your brakes are not powefull enough, even when not abused, then change your brakepad compound. That means get a pad with a compound designed to operate at low and mid temps. What brand of pad do you currently use? believe me or not, the pads that came OEM on e30s is quite a good and cheap pad. Try a set of OEM Jurid. To save a bit of $, buy the ones for the 190 Mercedes as they are a bit cheaper than BMW fitment. If you want a firm pedal with limited travel, then go to a 25.4mm master cylinder from 750iL. It sells for under $150 at FlyingBrickPerformance. 135% stiffer and 65% pedal travel.

[Mike325]

Yep. A good pad and rotor set-up will make a world of difference.

[winstontj]

Brakes are fine - ABS has been disconnected (wish it was working) but what I'm really after is a little firmer pedal feel. Initially it's a little soft, then gets firmer when you use it a bit. There are SS flex lines installed so I'd bet a good fluid flush would make a world of difference. Other than that is there anything else you guys do to get better pedal feel & improve stock setup braking?

[Massive Lee]

See the above reply. New pads, Ate calipers, properly bled system, bigger MC.

[winstontj]

bigger MC.

I should have re-read your first post Lee. Are these MC's marked (like the 2002) showing the MC size on the outside of the unit? A lot of work has been done on my car - some top notch some mickey mouse/half assed. I'd like to know what I have before I start purchasing upgrades. If I can't tell what MC I have I'll just replace it with a known 750iL part.

[JRKOUPE]

For street, you will not need any BBK. Simply make sure you have the ATE calipers/carriers and not the wimpy Girling ones. Check that your pads are not more than 50% worn at the front and back (that is because the more the pads are worn, the further the caliper is on the guiding pins, which leads to extra flex), and that the system is properly bled. You can remove the front heatshield if you experience a bit of overheating. And that's it.

If you feel your brakes are not powefull enough, even when not abused, then change your brakepad compound. That means get a pad with a compound designed to operate at low and mid temps. What brand of pad do you currently use? believe me or not, the pads that came OEM on e30s is quite a good and cheap pad. Try a set of OEM Jurid. To save a bit of $, buy the ones for the 190 Mercedes as they are a bit cheaper than BMW fitment. If you want a firm pedal with limited travel, then go to a 25.4mm master cylinder from 750iL. It sells for under $150 at FlyingBrickPerformance. 135% stiffer and 65% pedal travel.

...from a man that sells BBK's that is a very honest and appropriate response!!!!..touche. Very good advice for sure . I track a mostly stock engined e 30 and run SS lines, stock calipers, no ducts, AP juice and hawk ht 10......pedal feels great.

hey Lee.....

I have wimpy girlings but I did not know Ate were better?.....are they stronger? I often get some brake shudder when pads get low and I assumed it was flex rearing its head......can a Girling calipered car be swi
tched to Ate?.... mainly concerened about fronts.........hmmmmm. THANKS........!!!

[2002maniac]

Stay stock with nice pads (this advise coming from a guy who has a BBK).

[Massive Lee]

Joel.

On track, you should NEVED have pads that are more than 50% worn. That is because the thinner the pads, the larger the distance the caliper is on the sliding pins. This creates flex and pedal travel. This initial flex will be perceived by a longer pedal travel before the pads start biting. If you want to use pads to the fullest, then grab a used (worn out) set of pads, grind away any trace of compound and keep only the backings to use as spacers. This will help firm up the pedal. Racers will install stainless steel plates to help keep heat away from pistons. The Ate calipers are stiffer than the Girling ones and have a better sliding system. You must swap the carriers along with the calipers.

Heat is the worst ennemy of brakes. When driving with brakes with flex, that requires to brake earlier and brake longer, which generates even more heat that will kill the brakes even more. It is a vicious circle because as it kills brakes, you need to brake even earlier and longer... Airducts help get rid of excess heat.

[Mike325]

I have a very nice set-up imo. Here is what I have:

25MM master from an e32. Got it new from flying brick for $125.
Turner SS flex lines. Do all six of them.
Stock rotors with axxis ultimate pads.

My pedal is firm as hell and will lock the front wheels with a little more than 1/4 pedal travel. It is very easy to heel-n-toe as well. You would like this set up if you like a firm, higher pedal.

[JRKOUPE]

Joel.

On track, you should NEVED have pads that are more than 50% worn. That is because the thinner the pads, the larger the distance the caliper is on the sliding pins. This creates flex and pedal travel. This initial flex will be perceived by a longer pedal travel before the pads start biting. If you want to use pads to the fullest, then grab a used (worn out) set of pads, grind away any trace of compound and keep only the backings to use as spacers. This will help firm up the pedal. Racers will install stainless steel plates to help keep heat away from pistons. The Ate calipers are stiffer than the Girling ones and have a better sliding system. You must swap the carriers along with the calipers.

Heat is the worst ennemy of brakes. When driving with brakes with flex, that requires to brake earlier and brake longer, which generates even more heat that will kill the brakes even more. It is a vicious circle because as it kills brakes, you need to brake even earlier and longer... Airducts help get rid of excess heat.

Lee......
thats some great info,.... thanks for the education..........

Im still considering your frt kit regardless!!!

[Jean]

I am going to be ordering a new MC and wanted to confirm something.

What options do I have if my car does not have ABS ? Am I limited to just the early 325i/e non abs MC as all others are abs units ?

[rede30]

I am going to be ordering a new MC and wanted to confirm something.

What options do I have if my car does not have ABS ? Am I limited to just the early 325i/e non abs MC as all others are abs units ?

How are the non abs MC different? It seems like you could use any MC and if that doesnt fit onto your booster than you could get a later e30 booster.

[Mike325]

How are the non abs MC different? It seems like you could use any MC and if that doesnt fit onto your booster than you could get a later e30 booster.

The non abs masters have three line connections, the abs ones have two.

[2002maniac]

I am going to be ordering a new MC and wanted to confirm something.

What options do I have if my car does not have ABS ? Am I limited to just the early 325i/e non abs MC as all others are abs units ?

you can use a master from a car with ABS. You just have to tee off the port for the front.