Aftermarket Sway bars?

[Rob@UUC]

Funny, input IE instead of UUC and the same would hold true.

The elephant in the room would also be the adjustability of the front sway bars. Since the OP is in the UK and presumably does NOT need a fixed point SPEC-E30 style bar this would free him up to use an adjustable front sway bar (or move up to the 25mm/22mm IE kit which you'll find on most E30's racing BMW club events or Pro-3).

I was curious as to what had changed. Jeff generally makes a nice product, but I did not think what you wrote was accurate. Looking at the website, I see:

IE bars do not have:

- positive stops
- bracket reinforcements
- strong reinforced steel bracket mounts
- trailing arm link mount reinforcements

[SkiFree]

I believe you are inaccurate, to quote from the IE website

Bracket reinforcements:
"Front Urethane Pivot bushings with new U-clamps (not the flimsy factory piece) and reinforcement plates."

strong reinforced steel bracket mounts:
"Rear Solid Billet Aluminum sway bar mounts with trunk reinforcement plates (NOT a cheap, ineffective, bent steel piece)." In fact I know even bimmerworld suggests using these pivot mounts.



- trailing arm link mount reinforcements:
"Rear adjustable endlinks with sliders (By using sliders you can fine-tune the adjustability to exactly suite your driving style.), Aurora bearings, and weld on reinforcement plates."

- positive-stops:
No, but not anything a set of bar clamps from McMaster-Carr wont solve. I'm sure if there was a demand then they'd be included.

**EDIT, all that and the option of going to a 25/22 kit for no extra $.

[Rob@UUC]

I believe you are inaccurate

Actually, pretty sure I'm accurate:

Bracket reinforcements:
"Front Urethane Pivot bushings with new U-clamps (not the flimsy factory piece) and reinforcement plates."

That's only the front.

strong reinforced steel bracket mounts:
"Rear Solid Billet Aluminum sway bar mounts with trunk reinforcement plates (NOT a cheap, ineffective, bent steel piece)." In fact I know even bimmerworld suggests using these pivot mounts.

While that is indeed a pretty piece, I've got grave reservations about a stressed aluminum piece.

The UUC part includes a significant backing plate reinforcement within the trunk floor, not just a pair of washers. It's kind of an important difference.

The UUC very strong steel is braced, box-sectioned, and welded. It's similar to how the chassis frame rails are built.

- trailing arm link mount reinforcements:
"Rear adjustable endlinks with sliders (By using sliders you can fine-tune the adjustability to exactly suite your driving style.), Aurora bearings, and weld on reinforcement plates."

The little weld-on triangles fix a torn hole... which UUC provides also. But in addition, UUC provides a directional weld-on entire mount section that replaces a torn-off mounting tab completely. I'll post pics tomorrow, unfortunately they're not shown on the UUC website picture at the moment.

Again a very different thing.

- positive-stops:
No, but not anything a set of bar clamps from McMaster-Carr wont solve. I'm sure if there was a demand then they'd be included.

I think we can see from a few other posts in this thread that these are considered important. Why would you want to chase down additional-cost hardware from somewhere else when the UUC has the part built in?

**EDIT, all that and the option of going to a 25/22 kit for no extra $.

Okay... now who wants a UUC 25/22 kit? Group buy? :D

But personally, I feel the SpecE30 sized 22/19 setup is perfect. If it works for a race car, you don't need bigger on your street car.

My own E30/S52 is set up one step beyond SpecE30... same H&R Race springs, same swaybars, but with Koni adjustables and until recently, Toyo R888 race tires in a 255 rear and 225 front.

My personal feeling is that the E30 independent suspension needs to be actually independent and too much rear bar does the opposite. I run the rear much softer than the front, both in terms of the Konis and the swaybar setting... that's how an E30 suspension works on the road. Locked up is not the key to good handling.

I'd be willing to bet that my E30 is one of the best-handling full-street setup E30s, period.

[SkiFree]

Actually, pretty sure I'm accurate:

Hmm, the only difference is that you have the rear end-link reinforcements where-as the IE kit has the stronger rear pivot bushing bracket, and offers the 25mm/22mm.

That's only the front.

Perhaps you can then clarify what other re-inforcement differences are included, other than the pieces already covered?

While that is indeed a pretty piece, I've got grave reservations about a stressed aluminum piece.

The UUC part includes a significant backing plate reinforcement within the trunk floor, not just a pair of washers. It's kind of an important difference.

The UUC very strong steel is braced, box-sectioned, and welded. It's similar to how the chassis frame rails are built.

Rob, I have "grave reservations" taking metallurgical advice from someone with an advertising background and not a degree in metallurgy like Jeff Ireland, especially when you use non-descript buzz-words like "grave reservation", "very strong steel". It's like taking stock-trading tips from my wife's hair-dresser (big on words, light on credibility).

FYI, The IE kit already has this inside-trunk plate you speak-a of, I'm guessing that's where you got the idea from initially (after your kit originally used the washers you refer to with distaste.)

The little weld-on triangles fix a torn hole... which UUC provides also. But in addition, UUC provides a directional weld-on entire mount section that replaces a torn-off mounting tab completely. I'll post pics tomorrow, unfortunately they're not shown on the UUC website picture at the moment.

Should be interesting to see this. I have yet to come across a failure with the weld-on tabs for a weekend-warrior (occasional track-day, street driven car).

I think we can see from a few other posts in this thread that these are considered important. Why would you want to chase down additional-cost hardware from somewhere else when the UUC has the part built in?

Perhaps you miss-understood me, I'm sure IE would include this if you asked.

Okay... now who wants a UUC 25/22 kit? Group buy? :D

But personally, I feel the SpecE30 sized 22/19 setup is perfect. If it works for a race car, you don't need bigger on your street car.

My own E30/S52 is set up one step beyond SpecE30... same H&R Race springs, same swaybars, but with Koni adjustables and until recently, Toyo R888 race tires in a 255 rear and 225 front.

My personal feeling is that the E30 independent suspension needs to be actually independent and too much rear bar does the opposite. I run the rear much softer than the front, both in terms of the Konis and the swaybar setting... that's how an E30 suspension works on the road. Locked up is not the key to good handling.

I'd be willing to bet that my E30 is one of the best-handling full-street setup E30s, period.

I agree that a smaller rear bar is a nice way to go, GENERALLY speaking, but why would you say the 22/19 kit "works for a race-car" when the race-car in question is prepared for a SPEC-series? Would you be of the same opinion about the E30's braking system (as required for Spec-E30) when someone asks you about your Big Brake Kit? Would you be saying that the number of Pro-3 cars, weekend-warriors, and others are wrong to run the 25/22 kit, despite the fact that many of them started out with the 22/19 kit? I think it's a bit presumptuous to claim the 22/19 combo to be "perfect" especially that within the same spec-e30 series you mention, many are running NO rear bar at all. My point being that it's incorrect to say the 22/19 is perfect.

I have full trust that your personal road car is well setup, but again with the large buzz-words. The 25mm/22mm setup seemed to do pretty well on the DTR-performance One-lap-of-America street car, of course Kevin is a heck of a prepper and Anthony is a heck of a driver.

http://www.dtronelap.com/

Why would you want to do a group buy on a part you don't make, let alone discredit as unnecessary?



Frankly, we could argue on the internet about this until the cows come home, I have a differing opinion than you, but reversely, do not make any grandiose claims to the IE kit being the "BEST". "BEST" is a moving target depending on the individual, and it can vary from simply being a coupe front swaybar, Bimmerworld setup, UUC kit, ST kit, to the IE kits.

[Rob@UUC]

Hmm, the only difference is that you have the rear end-link reinforcements where-as the IE kit has the stronger rear pivot bushing bracket

I'm not sure why I think you've said that twice. A machined aluminum bracket, retaining aluminum's fatigue and cracking properties, is not stronger than a box section, reinforced, close-welded steel assembly. There's a reason that car chassis aren't built out of billet aluminum!

and offers the 25mm/22mm.

Hmmm... that's a great idea! Addressing interest on a fully-equipped UUC version like that now.

Perhaps you can then clarify what other re-inforcement differences are included, other than the pieces already covered?

Read above?

Rob, I have "grave reservations" taking metallurgical advice from someone with an advertising background and not a degree in metallurgy like Jeff Ireland, especially when you use non-descript buzz-words like "grave reservation", "very strong steel". It's like taking stock-trading tips from my wife's hair-dresser (big on words, light on credibility).

And at the point where message board conversations devolve into weird and inaccurate personal attacks, I step back and wish you and that silliness a good day.

I have a very good personal relationship with Jeff Ireland. I've been friends with him for around 15 years. I am familiar with how his products are built quite intimately and they are quite serviceable for the type of use and budget that they are built toward.

What I can say is that making personal attacks as you're doing here is not the way that Jeff does business and I'd appreciate the respect due one of Jeff's companions in the BMW performance industry.

[SkiFree]

Frankly, we could argue on the internet about this until the cows come home, I have a differing opinion than you, but reversely, do not make any grandiose claims to the IE kit being the "BEST". "BEST" is a moving target depending on the individual, and it can vary from simply being a coupe front swaybar, Bimmerworld setup, UUC kit, ST kit, to the IE kits.

I'm glad we can come to some sort of civil conclusion.

[Duke137]

Some great info, I have bought a nearly new set of H&R's now as previously stated. Going to see how I get on with them but as this is a street car I think they will be fine for me.

[e30leigh]

ive been shopping around for sway bars. and i think ill be going with the uuc kit.

they look well made, the car is daily driven with the odd track day here and there. so they should be nice.

[einstein57]

[Duke137]

Little update, I got these H&R 22mm/19mm delivered today:



Very low mileage and 3 track days use. They were too much of a bargain to turn down.

They use standard BMW shackles and drop links so I will get all the OEM stuff and see how we go, should be fine for a street car :)