Camber Correction= Waste of $$$?

[DaButt]

I really, really have tried searching for a specific answer- but a search for "camber correction" returns a vast amount of results.

I just bought H&R Sports, Billie Sprts. Got the front/reat Shock mount refresh kit from TMS (auto shop lifetime warranty RSMs), AKG 95a CABs.

This is strictly a DD. I would love to say I have the time to Auto-X it or track it, but I just don't.

Simple question- do I NEED camber correction?

That is, will I damage the car without it? If not, I'm not planning on buying camber plates. I just want a slightly tighter, more responsive cornering ability for my daily commute, I'm not a maniac, it's an Eta, for fuck's sake, I'm not trying to prove anything- other than the fact that I'm classier than a Ricer.

Side note, I got the Billies from BavAuto for $97/110 F/R (R/F). It was the best price I found. And BMP had the H&R Sports for $235- plus the mount kit from TMS- $150, plus AKG CABs- $50. All told, slightly less than $900 for a suspension overhaul, I'm not gonna lie, pretty proud of myself. I've been researching prices, specs for months.

What do you guys think? Did I make the right moves? Do I need dish out the cash for some fixed camber plates? Think IE has em for around 150 a pair.

[nrubenstein]

Camber isn't good that good for daily driving.

[Bearmw]

What tires/rims are you running? With good rubber it's highly unlikely you will need extra camber for the street use you describe.

[Holland]

If you are only on sport springs then I wouldn't worry about camber correction. Honestly fresh rubber in the trailing arms and subframe should be all you really need.

[LJ851]

It all depends on how you feel about uneven/accelerated tire wear.

The toe introduced when the rear is lowered will make the rear tires wear quicker.

[jlevie]

There will not be a lot of camber gain from sport springs. If you set front toe to no more than 1/16" total toe in tire wear won't be excessive. Install new OE RTABs as the ones on the car are probably shot by now and causing rear camber/toe errors. For a DD, use OE solid M3 offset cabs for less NVH and better highway speed stability. The slight camber gain will improve handling.

[hwy84]

There will not be a lot of camber gain from sport springs. If you set front toe to no more than 1/16" total toe in tire wear won't be excessive. Install new OE RTABs as the ones on the car are probably shot by now and causing rear camber/toe errors. For a DD, use OE solid M3 offset cabs for less NVH and better highway speed stability. The slight camber gain will improve handling.

Quoted for accuracy.

Also, "camber correction" typically means setting the camber back to where it WAS, which in the case of lower springs means adding positive camber (bringing the top of the wheel out and the bottom of the wheel in) to compensate for the effects of lowering . Any fixed or adjustable plate you can get for your stock diameter springs will only provide for more negative camber (bringing the top of the wheel in, ans the bottom out).

Your springs are minimally lower, so you have only added maybe a single degree of tive camber, if that. You likely don't need or want more for street driving on that setup.

My advice for more even tire wire on cars with negative camber is aways the same - and it works every time: go find a mountain road, and drive with purpose in the corners!

Be safe. Heh.

[CarsSuck]

I've been driving on that setup for 5 years now. I haven't seen any need to camber plates, my tires wear pretty evenly and I rotate them when I change from Summer to Winter wheels. The H&R sports will add some negative camber in the front and rear and it benefits the handling and turn in a lot. It's a damn good DD setup.

[bmwguy325is]

I like being able to adjust stuff. Gives me peace of mind. Then again I DD on -3 degrees all day long.

[Holland]

I like being able to adjust stuff. Gives me peace of mind. Then again I DD on -3 degrees all day long.

I'm guilty of this. Though I dd solid bushings too.

[CarsSuck]

I like being able to adjust stuff. Gives me peace of mind. Then again I DD on -3 degrees all day long.

Exactly, I can't recall off the top of my head and my last alignment sheet is a few blocks away in my glove box, but I'm between -1.5 and -2 degrees all around. How do you do on tires?

As I recall, replacing the RTABs and sub-frame bushing did almost nothing for my car's rear alignment, specifically toe. I have a little bit of toe out on both sides and they're not exactly the same, so if that isn't in spec, either get the adjusters or find new trailing arms. Servicing rear end is just too much of a PITA to do twice. FWIW, I don't notice anything in how the car drives/handles.

[German Audio Specialties]

I can tell you my personal experience, if that helps.

My car was a DD for quite some time, lowered on B&G with KYBs, more than a bit lower than yours on H&R. Our driving styles sound similar: aggressive yes, but not insane. Never over triple a cloverleafs posted speed, hardly ever even hearing the tires...but a bit of crazy here and there, its a fun car, right?

I ate through a set of 215/40/17s every 6000 miles. I went through 4 sets like that.

After consulting R3V, I did what I have always done on my cars, replaced the trailing arm bushings with Urethane. Basically, whatever bushings allows movement in the suspension, actual pivot points get urethane.

My next set of tires had well over 12,000 on them when the car was killed, and plenty of life left at that.

Lots of guys on here will tell you "new rubber bits do that too" but I call BS. I have been around these cars since they were new. Lots of guys in lowered E30 back in those days complained about tire wear too, on new cars. This isn't a new issue, right? For me, urethane trailing arm bushings were the cure for horrid tire wear.

Luke

[CarsSuck]

Luke, part of that equation is your 17" wheels. But, it also supports my experience of having new rubber RTABs not being a real improvement. I do wish I had used a soft urethane instead...sometimes, but not when I'm stuck behind slow cars on Virginia's pot-hole ridden roads.

From what I've read, slightly bent trailing arms are a pretty common cause of rear alignment problems. If I were to do it again, I would have inspected the TAs much closer for trueness.

[StereoInstaller1]

Luke, part of that equation is your 17" wheels..

Nope. Nonsense. Not a chance in hell, actually.

Do you have any actual proof of that belief? I hear that crap all the time yet no one seems to be able to properly explain it. The whole "more heat" is nonsense, at legal or semi legal speeds there is no appreciable heat difference in the tread temp or the sidewall temp from 2 very similar cars traveling the same road at the same speed, mine on 17", the other on 15".

Theory aside, not one single shred of evidence supports the whole "bigger wheels eat tires" stance at all, or none that I can find. The tires are a difference, for sure, but that is due to tires being different, not the size of the wheels.

You cannot buy "high mileage" 215/40/17, so comparing a "summer high performance" tire to an "all weather high mileage" tire is just retarded right? We all know none of us are dumb enough to do that.

And, if your logic proves true, explain to me how I was able to at least triple my tire wear by changing the RTABs only? Again, wheel size has just about nothing to do with it, as far I have been able to find actual evidence on.

However,I can certainly explain my position, parroting the words that have been beaten into my head since the 70's: "Urethane does not allow dynamic alignment changes as easily as rubber" so the trailing arm stays in alignment better, keeping the tire in better alignment, causing more even tire wear.

100% of my references are from actual data, not some BS on a forum or whatever BTW. YMMV. Yes, I know (well over 200,000 miles so far) there are issues with Urethane, and I would love all spherical bushings that were firmly rubber mounted...but urethane works incredibly well, fixes the issues and is cheap. All in all, for those 2 areas of the car, CABs and RTABs, urethane is the winner for me.

Oh yeah, use "Marine Grade Synthetic Boat Trailer Wheel Bearing Grease" and you should have zero squeaks for over 15K miles, even in the rain. My next E30 will have greasable bushings one way or another, like I did with all the GM cars. So much easier to pump a little squirt of grease twice a year or so!

Luke

[DaButt]

Hey thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it. Here's what I've purchased.

4 x H&R Sport springs
4 x Bilstein Sport Struts/shocks
1 x TMS strut/shock mount kit (incl- Front upper strut mounts (guide support), standard alignment settings (not offset), Front and rear self-locking mounting nuts, Rear Lifetime Warranty 'Repair Shop' shock mounts, Rear shock mount gaskets)
2 x M3 offset control arm bushings
1 x Set of Urethane RTABs
1 x urethane steering knuckle

Any ballpark guesses for how much the installation will cost me at an independent shop?