Gauging interest for mega-sized swaybars for E30...

[Rob@UUC]

Hey guys,

We've been experimenting with swaybars even larger than our current offering for even more racecar-style handling, particularly suitable to the big-power E30s out there.

As you may know, we currently offer an E30 swaybar kit with 22mm front and 19mm rear bars, complete with bushings, reinforcement bracket parts, and spherical bearing end links for front and rear.

The long-term testing we have recently completed is the same complete package but updated to 27mm front, 23.8mm rear bar sizes.

One set has been on my own personal daily driver, a 1988 325i with S52/6-speed swap, adjustable Konis and H&R Race springs. My daily drive to UUC HQ is 15 miles of twisty backroads. I can personally attest that the bigger bars make this an even faster drive than our standard sizes and there is no decrease in ride quality. Body roll, even with the H&R Race springs already installed, is reduced even further.

So we're gauging interest from you guys; vote and feel free to post any questions or comments.

Thank you for your input. UUC loves the E30 and we're looking forward to further development of the platform.

[Holland]

Is the front bar hollow?

[Rob@UUC]

Is the front bar hollow?

No, solid. To have the same effect as a solid bar, a hollow bar would have to be even bigger. Equivalent bar rate of a hollow vs. solid bar has to do with a calculation of wall thickness and diameter.

[acolella76]

This would be a great upgrade for people that like only having one wheel on the ground through turns!

IMO there isn't really a market for it. The people that buy them for just for the sake of having bigger swat bars are probably fewer than the people that realize that there is such a thing as a sway bar that is too big.

There actually may be a few rally guys that could benefit from these though

[carfantiti]

even the 22/19 makes it so you have to drill hole s and add reinforcement.allot people with race set ups run no rear sway bars. I think that is way over kill and will cause more damage than good.to stiff suspension can hurt handling roads are not completely smooth flat.

[Rob@UUC]

This would be a great upgrade for people that like only having one wheel on the ground through turns!

That is not what we are experiencing in testing. The car stays very planted even in fast 90° - 120° turns with the setup I described above.

[Rob@UUC]

even the 22/19 makes it so you have to drill hole s and add reinforcement.

Of course - it's the ideal way of doing it. E30s break their rear swaybar mounting tabs with the original equipment swaybars, it's a design weakness in those mounting points.

Reinforced brackets are simply a good idea and not difficult to install (the UUC kit comes with all the parts necessary).

allot people with race set ups run no rear sway bars.

Correct. That has a lot to do with how a race suspension is set up differently than a street suspension. SpecE30, however, requires both front and rear bars to be used in the standard race configuration.

Setup configuration and preference are also the reasons that UUC bars can be purchased individually - front only, rear only, or complete set.

[LJ851]

What happened to Andrew's post quoting Rob@UUC saying 22/19 sways were the optimal size for the E30 chassis? Rob stated the wheels needed to move independently on the E30 chassis to handle correctly.

Have you changed your views in this matter Rob? It sounds like you are saying dramatically larger sways are superior to the more traditional 22/19 size. Has there been any testing done to validate performance gains ? (Lap times, G readings?)

[acolella76]

That is not what we are experiencing in testing. The car stays very planted even in fast 90° - 120° turns with the setup I described above.

Prove it... I've seen cars with 25mm front sways lift tire. 27mm would just be ridiculous.

The 19mm specE30 rear sway already makes the back end of the E30 want to step out a lot. 22mm is like driving on plastic tires... why would you suggest a 23.8mm for more grip? You are just going against every basic rule about sway bars.

Correct. That has a lot to do with how a race suspension is set up differently than a street suspension. SpecE30, however, requires both front and rear bars to be used in the standard race configuration.

Setup configuration and preference are also the reasons that UUC bars can be purchased individually - front only, rear only, or complete set.

Now you are just getting off topic...

[Rob@UUC]

Prove it... I've seen cars with 25mm front sways lift tire. 27mm would just be ridiculous.

You're in Marietta, we're in Alpharetta. Come on over, I'll let you decide for yourself.

The 19mm specE30 rear sway already makes the back end of the E30 want to step out a lot. 22mm is like driving on plastic tires...

What are you using for tires and springs/dampers? There are a number of reasons why your experience would be different than mine.

why would you suggest a 23.8mm for more grip? You are just going against every basic rule about sway bars.

Which "basic rules" are you reading? Swaybars are a part of the suspension that interacts with other parts... anything you change affects how other parts work. Handling is not just about "grip". It's about chassis control. The larger rear bar does make the rear end more responsive such that a skilled driver can rotate the car more easily - and that sort of responsiveness is exactly what the E30 is all about.

Nevertheless, to repeat what I wrote above, there's a reason we offer the bars individually; you can choose which works better with the rest of your setup, your driving technique, and your needs.

Now you are just getting off topic...

How is answering carfantiti's point off-topic?

[reelizmpro]

These cars came with 19-21mm front/12-14mm rear sways. For a long time ST sways were the ticket...22/19mm for around $220. Just driving up driveways will rip the mounts off with those. When Jeff Ireland came out with his 25/22's I thought they were too big, too expensive and mounting them became a problem. Frankly, I can't even imagine trying to effectively mount a 23.8 rear swaybar without some serious mod/reinforcement. I wouldn't want to deal with it. In fact, more people are going to stiffer rates with coilover kits these days which lessen's the need for extra large swaybars. Like conventional springs, there is such thing as too much.

[Rob@UUC]

These cars came with 19-21mm front/12-14mm rear sways. For a long time ST sways were the ticket...22/19mm for around $220. Just driving up driveways will rip the mounts off with those. When Jeff Ireland came out with his 25/22's I thought they were too big, too expensive and mounting them became a problem. Frankly, I can't even imagine trying to effectively mount a 23.8 rear swaybar without some serious mod/reinforcement.

As we all know, E30s rip out original swaybars easily. UUC kits include a bolt-in reinforcement kit, eliminating the problem.

[acolella76]

What are you using for tires and springs/dampers? There are a number of reasons why your experience would be different than mine.

Toyo Proxes R888, Eibach ERS 500/275 springs, Motion Control Suspension 2-way adjustable dampers. Sup bro.

You know what. I had this huge response typed up. Mathematical formulas and everything. But honestly, it isn't worth it. What I can do to prove you wrong with math and experience you can do by simply talking. Obviously I'm not alone in thinking your proposed bars are overkill, so go ahead and make them. All that will happen is people will post something about them on the forum asking if they should install them, and we will say 'No.'. You haven't answered any of our questions with actual data to prove that a stiffer bar leads to a faster car. All you have done is give us reasons why you think we should give you money.

With that, I will not be replying to this thread anymore. I am not going to diminish the credibility of my name nor the name of the company that employs me for someone like you.

[Smelser]

On dirt, we are starting by throwing away the sway bars. letting the car lean and roll to transfer weight to get bite on the right side.

[euronotworthy]

Will these "bigger and better" sway bars take any longer to be delivered than your standard bars?