Lowerd iX - M3 CABs - in or out camber?

[beamR X]

K.
My 1991 325iX. Lowerd with H&Rs. Seems like it has some nice camber on the front wheels after.
I am about to install new m3 CABS. Should I go with the more camber way or less.
FWIW I drive rather aggressively.
I am leaning towards more camber. Whatcha all think.



BTW, which way gives more camber. Logic would suggest puting the whole towards outside of the car...

[Axxe]

CABs affect caster not camber. Install them in the proper orientation.

[beamR X]

CABs affect caster not camber. Install them in the proper orientation.

Yes, caster will be afected by rotating the baljoint forword and backward.
Camber inadvertly must be affected as well. Moving a CA end side to side will result in camber shift. No question here...
I know what both of these things will do to turn in, tracking and high speed stability. Why am I asking then, you may ask. Well, I am new to e30s, so I am asking old dogs what they found works best and feels best in this particular car. Also, it seems like tire wear is a factor. I am observing, that even with this mach camber I am wearing the outer side...

So what's everybody doing here???

[IS]

Offset CAs are not meant to change camber - only caster. You cannot say that they "must" affect camber. It is possible, but without measurements, you can't say for sure.

Think of the outer ball joint location on a circular axis. Imagine the stock position being the same degrees away from maximum camber (or the centerline of the circle) as the offset position (but in the opposite direction, of course). Camber would not be changed.

[beamR X]

This is exactly why I asked this question. Maybe the difference is so insignificant that no one in e30 world cares about the camber difference this creates. So I guess I got my answer, camber change in offset bushing is negligible, so the real question is in caster. So do I want more or less? I guess with my driving I want more...
However, I still cannot compute how the camber does not change at all. OK - call me anal and perhaps I am splitting hairs but I am a perfectionist by nature so I have to understand this. In the picture below I can see how the inner ball joint and the bottom of the strut are situated in relation to each other and in relation to the CAB. By moving the back of the arm (CAB end) the inner joint stays in the same fixed spot by being held in the sub frame. So, the outer strut has no choice but to move in a pengilum (spelling?) fashion side to side. The pengilum, when swung from side to side will not only result in a distance change in axis X (CASTER), but will also (however insignificantly at the bottom of the radius) change a distance of the Y axis.
If the distance of the Y axis changes it will push the knuckle to the inside or the outside of the vehicle. Since the top of the strut mount remains constant, all of the above will definitely change CAMBER.
Looking at the pic below I can see that both BJs and lower strut mounts are not in a perfect straight line, however moving the CAB hole inwards would bring the BJ's and strut mounts closer to the straight line or in other wards closer to the bottom of the pengilum. This would result in a lesser Y axis distance change, or less impact on camber.
On the other hand, if I move the bushing so the arm moves outwards, I am pushing pengilum further, so the distance on Y axis will be grater, meaning more camber impact...
If I lost you guys, I apologize, if I'm wrong my entire understanding of physics and geometry is undermined and I would be really confused...
I think I'm not though. After studying this pic I realized that the camber change may be so insignificant it would be hard to measure in relevant terms...

[IS]

You are right in a strictly pen-and-paper fashion.

There are different adjustments for different aspects of your suspension geometry so all of your above observations are irrelevant.

Yes, you would benefit from more caster as it makes the car more stable and creates more dynamic camber as you turn the wheel. The downside is that it also lifts the car as you turn the wheel, which may require more steering effort (this really isn't a concern for power steering cars though).

[nando]

they affect camber - but not very much. you will lose a little bit because as you move the cab mounts out, you move the bottom of the strut forward, and also in.

is, maybe you should think about how the front suspension points work together before you say that it has no affect on camber. I'd draw a diagram but I don't reall feel like explaining it right now.

in any case, M3 cabs are a great upgrade for the ix. it comes with virtually no caster, so an extra 1.5 degrees of so ends up being a huge change. don't even think about installing them the wrong way though, you would probably end up with 0 caster and a very difficult car to drive.

[nando]

yeah, it's nothing to worry about, that's for sure.