KONI vs BILSTEIN

[Oolop]

lol to each his own :up:

Well I will add this: it all depends on what you're aiming for.

Hella flushed/slammed (no track duty or actual cornering performance) twin tube is the way to go because you have more shock travel in that design and can "get lower".

Competition/performance where grip matters, monotube is the way to go.

As for adjustability, it doesn't matter how far from soft your shocks are adjusted if you're skills aren't developed enough to really understand or feel the difference. Point I'm getting at is that it's the driver who's the weakest link. Do the best you can and be consistent before making all these changes and then once you get to the point of making adjustments, do them one by one and write down the affects. Just my two cents!

[nando]

Konis are cheaper? News to me...

They may be inferior, but they still ride better. :p

[Oolop]

Bilstein>KONI
Monotube>Twintube
Big Piston>Small Piston
Gas separated from fluid by floating piston>Gas not separated from fluid causes cavitation when shock is being worked hard
Pricier but quality>Cheap but... cheap.

Although not all Bilsteins are monotube and not all KONI's are twintube, for the majority these are what we generally see bought most often.

[Holland]

Why don't I suggest something constructive here.

How about E30M3 springs and Boge dampers? Lower than a stock narrow body E30, while still giving a stock yet sporty ride.

Sure it isn't hella low, but clearly you don't care about that...

[dsm2002]

[QUOTE=K20RI_211;3897444] ... stuff ... [quote]

If you are chasing ride comfort and reasonable handling you could not go past factory M-Tech shocks, springs and sways. Tried this and they are excellent. My current daily is running lowered Super Low King springs with bilstein HDs. The kings (Aussie company) are progressive on the front about 110-160lb and 315 rear. Ride and handling was great except for a harshness when the bilsteins bottomed out. Some tweaking to raise the front 15mm was enough to minimise most of the on-the-bump stop harshness. This is on mostly the smooth local Canberra streets. If your streets are pot holes and bumps you'll need to keep the ride height up. You'll need the suspension travel.

Next iteration will be 255lb front springs, 350 rear with iX Bilstein HDs/shortened struts legs with one third of the bump stop removed and rear sports with M-Tech sways.

I have not tried konis but few people I know and respect (ie not on this board) reckon their valving rates suit E30 although with higher rates than you may want. Keep in mind with well match shocks, heavier springs may be more comfortable than lighter springs and mismatched shocks

...also ignore the twerps on the board. Slinging insults is what gives their lives meaning ;)

[F34R]

My brother and I changed over from Bilstein Sports to GC Koni SA valved for our kits. It was night and day. Car handled so much better, ride was smooth vs the BSports. Both cars have a 1.5" shorten to the housings.

I also laid down better times in SCCA events with the same setup except for changing to Konis. I cannot comment on the base Koni as mine are matched to the springs from Koni for GC.

And Mark is SO right on the 5min turns for adjustment. It is a ton of fun to dial in the suspension. I admit when i first got them I set it up to completely firm. That with stiff springs, polly bushings and fat sway bars...it did not have enough lean to help corner. After adjusting to about 1/4 from hard for tracking and 3/4 from hard for daily. It just made a wonderful improvement.

I drive my e30 to events, so I increase hardness to half on the way there. Then to 1/4 once I arrive and the car is set after my first test run.

I was a Bilstein fan, and still am in sorts. For cheap reliable handling you cannot go wrong with Bilstein Sports and H&R sport springs. Nice drop, clearance for daily use(pot holes, bumps etc) and the handling is WORLDS better than stock.

Don't build by what everyone else uses. Build it to suit YOUR uses. IMO the BEST daily setup is this:

e92 drop hats, Koni SA, H&R race. I go with the race because it handles worlds better and looks better for the ride height. Not too rough, not too low and a BLAST in corners.

I have owned and daily'd both sports and race, also both insert/shock brands. For the money Koni rides and feels better.

That is my first hand advice.

[Bullwings]

OK. You know, if I lived in a world - like yours, apparently - where I measured my status by how long I've been a forum and how many post counts, I'd buy your garbage theory. Just been bumping my post count by selling parts, broseph - not by dealing with teenage angst attitude.

They're not breaking my back. I want an improvement. I know what I bought - I love this freaking car, and I"m getting pretty damn tired of everybody questioning it. Nobody knows the circumstances of buying this car, building this car, and getting it to where it is - but it involved a lot of shit times in my life, and a lot of family and friends helping me pull it together. SO everyone and your opinions about it being the wrong car can kindly STFU. Chances are I am older than all of you and understand a thing or two about older cars, so PLEASE spare me the lectures about 80s technology. Holy shit. It's a third car for me, a project. Everybody can please chill the fuck out about how horribly I am disrespecting the E30 brand by asking for a compliant suspension.

I got it. Konis will be a moderate improvement. I have the funds, will spend the money, and see where I stand. All I want is an improvement over the Billies.

But Christ, one more of you acting like you got all the wisdom and years is going to make me lose my mind. Ordering Konis tomorrow and everybody here can respectfully move. the. fuck. on.

Interwebz...

Being older means one thing and one thing only... You're older. Knowledge doesn't necessarily come with that. Oh yeah, and you're totally acting like an old dude by flipping out on everyone and calling everyone kids and teenagers - sounds like typical old people behavior.

Additionally, if you know so much, then why are you on a forum asking for advice and opinions (as you would like to put it)?

And yes. It is 80s tech. It's using semi-trailing arms. Talk about archaic budget design. If you want to have travel and AND be able to maintain your alignment through that travel, you go with a double wishbone design - not only does it provide better travel, it allows you to better maintain your alignment through the range of that travel - better geometry, better engineering (using struts up front is another issue too). FYI, this is not an opinion - it's a fact.

The Rahal Letterman team knows that trailing arms and struts are junk when it comes to outright handling and performance. If you look at the E92 that they're using for the American Le Mans Series, they completely redesign the suspension geometry and cut out what comes from BMW and replace it with double wish bone arms front and rear.

FYI - no one cares about your circumstances and so on surrounding your car and what it took to piece it together, especially not when you come in and berate everyone like you've been doing.

This is what you did...

-Asked a question
-Got answers you didn't like
-Told everyone that you know it all
-Then told everyone Eff-off, I'm older than you and understand more about this car and life in general

Ok. So then, you're done here. LOL

And no, you're not disrespecting the car, but you're asking a lot more of it than what it was originally engineered to do. The answer is throw more money at it - and by more, I mean more than just Konis.

Seriously, though, chill - it's the internet. Stop acting your age...

[Komzorz]

I am old and immensely knowledgeable with superior credentials to everyone in addition to being totally loaded and my simple old car rides like garbage.

Before you buy Konis, I would snip the bumpstops in half on your Bilsteins and see if that nets you what you're looking for. I say this because even overdamped springs won't bang/crash over minor road abrasions.

If that still doesn't work, then I would spring for the Konis because you should be able to tune the Konis to the exact minimum you need to effectively damp your springs. If that still doesn't work, then you'll know for sure the springs are too stiff.

[acolella76]

So, no, you can't have the best of both worlds. There is no, decent handling, comfy ride with nice lowered stance (not even talking slammed, just regular lowered).
.

False, you can absolutely have the best of both worlds. Ride quality, stiffness, low cost. Pick two.

if you look at these modern cars with adjustable settings for suspension and ride. what are they changing? damper rates or spring rates?

Usually they change only rebound damping, but I have seen some electronic shocks that control both bump and rebound. Don't know what cars those come on, though.


Let us know how the konis work for you, OP

[digger]

lighten up francis? people mean well for the most part chill a bit

[K20RI_211]

Professional? And who exactly is paying me to help you? It's a public forum and you are going to have to deal with opinions. You've been here for 2 years and 600 posts; I'd assume you knew the drill by now.

I can tell you first hand that Koni yellows, while they ride better than Bilsteins, are still performance shocks and will be much firmer than stock--you will still feel the road. If Bilsteins are a bit too much, Konis may be okay. But if Bilsteins are breaking your back, Konis may not be your answer. You've got to ask yourself if you still want a performance car or just a cruiser, and it sounds like it's more towards the latter.

OK. You know, if I lived in a world - like yours, apparently - where I measured my status by how long I've been a forum and how many post counts, I'd buy your garbage theory. Just been bumping my post count by selling parts, broseph - not by dealing with teenage angst attitude.

They're not breaking my back. I want an improvement. I know what I bought - I love this freaking car, and I"m getting pretty damn tired of everybody questioning it. Nobody knows the circumstances of buying this car, building this car, and getting it to where it is - but it involved a lot of shit times in my life, and a lot of family and friends helping me pull it together. SO everyone and your opinions about it being the wrong car can kindly STFU. Chances are I am older than all of you and understand a thing or two about older cars, so PLEASE spare me the lectures about 80s technology. Holy shit. It's a third car for me, a project. Everybody can please chill the fuck out about how horribly I am disrespecting the E30 brand by asking for a compliant suspension.

I got it. Konis will be a moderate improvement. I have the funds, will spend the money, and see where I stand. All I want is an improvement over the Billies.

But Christ, one more of you acting like you got all the wisdom and years is going to make me lose my mind. Ordering Konis tomorrow and everybody here can respectfully move. the. fuck. on.

[Cabriolet]

Bullwings, i fing love you. best new guy post ever.
you nailed it.

[digger]

if you look at these modern cars with adjustable settings for suspension and ride. what are they changing? damper rates or spring rates?

[Bullwings]

I'm pretty new here, but my understanding with suspension on this car is that the geometry limits suspension travel quite a bit.

Essentially, you want to lower the car on nice soft plushy springs/shocks. This car doesn't work like that. Lowering the car further decreases the amount of suspension travel you have - so to make sure you don't bottom out and smash everything, your springs and shock dampening must increase - which in turn makes the ride harsher.

So, no, you can't have the best of both worlds. There is no, decent handling, comfy ride with nice lowered stance (not even talking slammed, just regular lowered).

What you want is a NEW car with NEW technology - see all that magnetic self adjusting suspension crap - not old 1980s engineering technology.

This car is dated and rides/drives like a dated car - that's what's so appealing about it - old school tech. The car either rides comfy and is a sloppy unresponsive mess, or rides stiffer and harsher and has better response/handling.

[tinkerputzer]

I agree with wh33lhop. Koni's may not be your answer.

The harshness you describe may be due to hitting the bump stops on the front dampers. This is possible to remedy by trimming the internal bump stops on bilsteins. First you need to find out how close you are to the bump stops. First take a zip tie and put it around the chrome portion of the front dampers just above the gland nut. Next go drive around and hit the bumps that really suck. Now observe where the zip tie resides. This will tell you how far the strut is compressing. Now mark, measure or do what ever to remember where the zip tie was pushed to. Here comes the interesting part. With the car on jack stands and the spring removed put a floor jack under the ball joint and compress the strut until it hits the bump stop. Now observe if this was where the zip tie landed or past it. If it stopped right at the zip tie you are riding on the bump stops. If it went past where the zip tie was then you have additional strut travel and bump stops aren't your problem. If you are hitting the bump stop then you need to do some measuring to find out how much trimming is needed ie before the spring hat hits the gland nut or the tire hits the inner fender. Trimming the internal bump stops on bilsteins is not hard. Just pop the cap off the bottom and trim as necessary.