Camber Plates: Vorshlag vs GC

[AlarmedBread]

As best I can tell, the only difference with the vorshlag plates is the top nut/washer/spacer and the perch style. The actual plate is the same with either style so all you need to change between coilovers and koni/bilstien is the correct perch and top nut, no need to buy the plates all over again.

[Fair!]

As best I can tell, the only difference with the vorshlag plates is the top nut/washer/spacer and the perch style. The actual plate is the same with either style so all you need to change between coilovers and koni/bilstien is the correct perch and top nut, no need to buy the plates all over again.

Yep.... these pictures show what's different between an "OEM Style" and "Coilover Style" Vorshlag perch/camber plate set-up:



These are for an E36 but they are very similar for the E30 chassis. The two leftmost set-ups are for an OEM style spring (stock or "lowering springs") that use the Vorshlag OEM style upper perch. Note the Vorshlag supplied "long reach Bilstein nut" which, along with a slightly different spool piece set-up inside the radial bearing in the spring perch, are what make the short stem Bilstein Sport work with our plates.

The set-up at far right is typical of 99% of all coilovers, and we make them for either 60mm and 2.5" spring perches. The Bilstein Sport coilovers have some of the parts form the OEM+Bilstein Sport set-up, shown in the middle...

So to go from OEM style springs to coilovers, you just get different Vorshlag perches. The camber plates are the same across the E30 model line. :D

[Fair!]

In this regard, I don't think the SpecE30 rules are "broken". The class rules are meant to ensure an even playing field while keeping car costs down. Once you allow a modified perch the path is open to strange configurations that might provide a competitive advantage.

Well, our perches add a bearing to isolate the radial/turning loads from the spherical bearing, so that the spherical won't wear out in a matter of weeks (we've got 5+ years on our earliest camber plates... with never a returned bearing). Also, our perches don't tend to crack, like we've seen dozens of "unmodified" SpecE30 perches. If yours are working, then that's good to hear.



And I do think the NASA folks have now recognized this, as they've added Vorshlag camber plates and our modified perches to the list on the new "Spec3" class (SpecE36 for NASA).

The GC plates work quite well, thank you. The current design includes a bolt plate, so you don't have to reach up into the strut tower to bolt the plate into place. I would not recommend the GC plates on a street car, but they work fine on my SpecE30.

Cool. Yes, having to reach in to hold the bolts from the bottom can be a pain and add to the time/hassle needed to adjust camber.



All of our BMW camber plates have had the strut tower studs welded to a "bolt ring" since the beginning, for this very reason. Making these bolt rings is a royal pain (I have to fixture them to a huge aluminum plate and weld them up, hundreds at a time) but its just the right way to do it.

Cheers,

[Slyder]

I will also throw in my +1 for the Vorshlag line. (Not just because I'm a dealer ;) ) I originally ran with the GC plates and one of the biggest complaints (just ask anyone that has a pair) is the noise. Additionally, as was previously mentioned, shorter stack, larger bearings, more rigid material (weight is negligible for such a small item and is sprung weight).

Terry...I don't know if you and Brian have dicussed this, but I suppose that the only thing I could see that could be a possible improvement to these plates would be some sort of etched indexing marks for camber/caster settings. Since the camber is easy enough to modify track-side (or at the autocross), it would be helpful to have some sort of mark to reference street settings vs. track settings, rather than the old paint pen or grease pencil :). Just a thought.

And for what it's worth...as much of a PITA as it is for you to make those bolt rings...everyone that owns a pair loves you for doing it!

[Fair!]

damn once again i'm lost. now i find out vorshlag is made for the koni as well :/

When we make a camber plate design we make it to fit everything... any spring, strut style, etc. Our E36 plates have the most variations - 23 and counting - and the E30 has about a dozen different configurations as well. "Koni style" is about 50% of the E30 breakdown for us.

Terry...I don't know if you and Brian have dicussed this, but I suppose that the only thing I could see that could be a possible improvement to these plates would be some sort of etched indexing marks for camber/caster settings. Since the camber is easy enough to modify track-side (or at the autocross), it would be helpful to have some sort of mark to reference street settings vs. track settings, rather than the old paint pen or grease pencil . Just a thought.

We have discussed this but it comes down to costs/selling price.


Left: CNC engraved/machined E36/E90 camber plates cost $339 - Right: non-engraved E30 plates cost $275

Note: I have since modified the E30 main plate drawings and now we "Laser" an arrow into the plate to show proper orientation (since we had noticed a few people who put them in backwards). Its not as pretty as a CNC engraving, so we only do the arrow. If the E30 aftermarket would pay extra for a CNC engraved/machined camber plate we could easily do them that way. We've discussed making this change many times but were unsure if the increase would go over very well.

Thoughts?

[SR20Fastback]

I ended up going with the GC Spec E30 plate :( I wanted the Vorshlag ones, but the guy I went through to get them could get the GC ones faster/cheaper. I will probably replace them eventually, for now I don't really mind the noise... just worried about the whole bearing load thing

[diegom6]

I got my Vorshlag Camber plates after three freaking months of wait or so...I really don't know why took so long but meh..I have them and love it!

[Fair!]

I got my Vorshlag Camber plates after three freaking months of wait or so...I really don't know why took so long but meh..I have them and love it!

Hmm... that sounds like an unusual delay. You didn't buy them direct from Vorshlag, did you? I would remember sending a set of E30 plates to Lima, Peru... and can't say that we ever have...



Our normal turn-around for an E30 camber plate order is 1-2 days. Every once in a blue moon we might run short on some small piece needed for an unusual set-up, but normally this 1-2 day turn around holds true. We have everything in stock to make any variation of E30 plates now - hundreds of sets worth in fact. If you had to wait more than a week then we apologize, but I just can't remember any order to Peru recently (your name isn't in your post for me to check). Please send us an e-mail at 'sales (at) vorshlag (dot) com' if you indeed ordered from us direct.

Thanks,

[diegom6]

Hmm... that sounds like an unusual delay. You didn't buy them direct from Vorshlag, did you? I would remember sending a set of E30 plates to Lima, Peru... and can't say that we ever have...



Our normal turn-around for an E30 camber plate order is 1-2 days. Every once in a blue moon we might run short on some small piece needed for an unusual set-up, but normally this 1-2 day turn around holds true. We have everything in stock to make any variation of E30 plates now - hundreds of sets worth in fact. If you had to wait more than a week then we apologize, but I just can't remember any order to Peru recently (your name isn't in your post for me to check). Please send us an e-mail at 'sales (at) vorshlag (dot) com' if you indeed ordered from us direct.

Thanks,

Oh no! my friend, Joseph Essaye who lives in Boca Raton, FLORIDA it's the person who probably talked to you some times on the phone and sent you some messures of my custom coil over setup since mine was different from the rest for say the least. I even have the invoice. Then, his mom traveled down here and brang it to me ;) (much cheaper)

He said the company was sponsoring some events and such things and didn't have much time for their customers or sort of besides the spring perch was custom.

-Diego

PS: If you want, I can upload a pic of the invoice here. It's hosted.

[diegom6]

Terry,

could you tell me if it's a BAD idea to remove some material of the plate to allow more caster for my bimma? Seems that I need more caster. Those allen bolts in the top, a pair of them moved tot he other "spare" thread and seems that I have some room to move the top plate forward to increase the caster but in the bottom, that collar welded with hex bolts are maxed out for caster gain.

thanks,

-Diego

[Fair!]

Terry,

could you tell me if it's a BAD idea to remove some material of the plate to allow more caster for my bimma? Seems that I need more caster. Those allen bolts in the top, a pair of them moved tot he other "spare" thread and seems that I have some room to move the top plate forward to increase the caster but in the bottom, that collar welded with hex bolts are maxed out for caster gain.

thanks,

-Diego

Extremely BAD idea. Don't go whittling on the plates. Every time some customer thinks they know more about our designs and starts hacking away at them they end up with a paperweight. :D There's more variables at play than you might think.

And you need MORE caster? Our E30 with our plates has 9 degrees of positive caster. That's insanely positive. And CAMBER is what makes a BMW faster on a road course. Caster is great for stability and dynamic camber, but static negative camber trumps every other specification in a BMW front suspension. By a huge amount.

Camber, camber, camber.

[diegom6]

Extremely BAD idea. Don't go whittling on the plates. Every time some customer thinks they know more about our designs and starts hacking away at them they end up with a paperweight. :D There's more variables at play than you might think.

And you need MORE caster? Our E30 with our plates has 9 degrees of positive caster. That's insanely positive. And CAMBER is what makes a BMW faster on a road course. Caster is great for stability and dynamic camber, but static negative camber trumps every other specification in a BMW front suspension. By a huge amount.

Camber, camber, camber.

My camber it's set to about 2.3 degrees or so, I don't need more than that for street driving. I had about 4 degrees of caster wich sucked big time for stability and handling.

I do have a 5lug swapp using e36 stuff, but I also added 97 + M3 control arms and CAB's to help my caster get back to "normal" specs, but all I got was 4 degrees. Then I drilled and trimmed the CAB's "arm" making it closer to the frame, therefore giving some milimeters of caster more. Then I added your plates and all I have is 6 degrees now. There are few guys over here runing 8-9 degrees of caster with similar setup as mine (e36 suspension swap) and I don't know how they did get those numbers.

I do have this plates for coil over of corse and Konis sports. The sway bars are stock tho, but I changed the the sway bar link position, just like the E30 M3, the big rod link attached to the strut housing instead of the control arm wich comes in stock e30's non M.

[Erick]

Great info on this thread.

[Hick]

vorshlag +1

They have been on my DD/autocrosser since this past spring without any problems. They were almost too pretty to put on the car :)

[Massive Lee]

Great design. It would be great if this design (flat surface) was used on e30 camber plates to allow full camber and caster settings to be used.