16x7.5 koseis help

[Mystikal]

You know for a fact that you made claims you can't back up, you still haven't addressed it.

I think we all have it down in our notebooks that you personally are happy with 205s, I'm just stating the mere, basic fact that you're not in a position to call them the "perfect size for an E30" without any sort of real comparison. Hell I could go on all day about how my E30 feels better than a new M3, even though I've never driven one in my life.

[rwh11385]

Well, Jay, I believe this is a thread about roadracing, not some backlot canuck Auto-X....

I'm sure I should research and try out every single tire for the e30 and do advanced calculations of weight / contact patch.... or maybe I just know 195s don't cut it, and 205s do. And 205s are the cheapest size that works. And because they are the cheapest, and the wheels are also the cheapest, that's the ideal size for a HPDE e30, in my eyes. This isn't Auto-X, i.e. I don't care about what's "competitive" as it isn't competition.... It is all about seat time, and 205s work, and are the cheapest tire to buy because you'll be going through plenty. Give you any reassurance that Mario (TIATO) uses 15x7s and 205-50-15s as well?

Of course, if you know better, let's hear it......

[rwh11385]

I'm just stating the mere, basic fact that you're not in a position to call them the "perfect size for an E30" without any sort of real comparison.

Here, let me break it down for you..... real slow and easy-like....

In my mindset, the best HPDE tire is the cheapest tire that can do its job. That's the definition for my ideal tire.

195s got greasy as hell. 205s did not. They were the same tire.

225s can do at least the same work as 205s, that is an assumption I'm comfortable with making.
225s cost at least as much as the 205s, which I believe we can assume. Most being a good % more than 205-50-15s.

Very simply, there's no need to go anywhere further than 205s to find the smallest tire that works.
Since 205s are cheapest and do the job, that, according to my definition, are the ideal size for HPDEs (at least the first 3 groups).

[Mystikal]

Well, Jay, I believe this is a thread about roadracing, not some backlot canuck Auto-X....

Of course, if you know better, let's hear it......

When did I ever make the claim that I know what is best for road racing? I just said (I'm getting tired of saying this) that you have no basis for your argument. And you still don't, and you're still changing what you originally stated.

What you're saying in the past few posts is perfectly valid. You like 205s, you think they're great, fine. Just admit you know nothing about anything more than 205s and your first comments were out of line.

[rwh11385]

When did I ever make the claim that I know what is best for road racing? I just said (I'm getting tired of saying this) that you have no basis for your argument. And you still don't, and you're still changing what you originally stated.

I believe you are in no position to split hairs.

Let's review Jay, of what I originally stated, and you made a complaint about:

To roadrace, I'd buy some 15x7 ones.....

1) Common. Easier to buy a spare or resell them.
2) Cheaper.
3) Size is ITS-legal. Dunno about 16s
4) Less of a penatly for plus-sizing in at least Auto-X, and perhaps TT as well
5) Tires cost a lot less. 205-50-15s are perfect tire for a car our size IMO

Those are my reasons. And

6) Learning on a 205 would be putting you a lot slower, and when you mess up, not be as bad. And a 225-45-15 race tire would be sweet in the end.

let's use some commas and cut down what was said here....
To roadrace, .....5) Tires cost a lot less. 205-50-15s are perfect tire for a car our size IMO

I say 205-50-15s are an ideal size IN MY OPIONION for e30s for ROADRACING (HPDEs). [fine, throw a hissy fit over size. who gives a fuck. a 240 would probably have a similar need for tires where a camaro would need more, and a miata or civic could get by with less. WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK about that assumption. the bottom line is it works for the e30s.]

same here: "205s are a great size for the weight of the e30"
want to require first hand experience? I have that. I've tracked a car with 195s and found them lacking....while 205s did their job.

i'm all good for the 'purity of information' here, but you're splitting hairs was just a nit-picky stupid shit, also something that plagues this site. Whining about saying 205-50-15s are good for roadracing was unnecessary. you just seem like a jackass, which is out of character, so cut it out Jay

[rwh11385]

A basis for my argument? first hand experience with what I mentioned (195s and 205s, you mentioned larger).

Why don't you admit you're splitting hairs on a subject you have no place to talk about, and you're a big jackass?

I don't think that's a valid conclusion without the testing of wider tires in the same venue. Yes, 205 is wider than 195. Yes, it will seem more "right" for the E30. But without trying 215 or 225, it's an incomplete idea.

Jay, are wider tires going to become CHEAPER?? NO. Therefore, STFU.

[Mystikal]

There are so many things wrong with your argument. You make great points for sure, and bring in useful first-hand experience. But you just can't claim that 205s are better han any wider, you still haven't seen anything different. Just because they are cheaper and "do their job" isn't reasonable evidence. Tokicos are cheaper and do their job if you've never tried anything better, too.

[Jarvis]

I say 205-50-15s are an ideal size IN MY OPIONION for e30s for ROADRACING

Someone who had tried 205s AND 225s in the same situation is better suited to judging whether or not the step up in grip is worth the extra money.
The only thing your opinion in this case is good for is that 205s are indeed better than 195s, and that you're not willing to spend the extra cash to even try 225s.
So you can't claim that +20mm tread at each corner isn't worth $XX.XX

I'm not trying to be a douche or pick sides. Neither of you is backing down from an argument that is losing its meaning.

[rwh11385]

But you just can't claim that 205s are better han any wider, you still haven't seen anything different.

I DON'T HAVE TO. IN MY DEFINITION OF AN IDEAL HPDE TIRE, PRICE IS THE LOWEST, AND WIDTH IS ONLY AS NEEDED AS WILL GET THE JOB DONE. ANY MORE IS THEREFORE IN EXCESS OF WHAT IS REQUIRED. 205s ARE CHEAPER, THAT MAKES THEM BETTER IN MY MINDSET. YOU KNOW NOTHING OF ROADRACING, SO YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO TALK SHIT, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP Jay

[Mystikal]

...but I do know 225's versus 215's versus 205's. Funny thing, isn't it.

And I know you have anger management issues, and I know this point you just wrote out so beautifully is valid. I still don't think you know enough to claim 205's are the perfect size for the E30 (I don't either, just so that's clear).

[rwh11385]

Someone who had tried 205s AND 225s in the same situation is better suited to judging whether or not the step up in grip is worth the extra money.
The only thing your opinion in this case is good for is that 205s are indeed better than 195s, and that you're not willing to spend the extra cash to even try 225s.
So you can't claim that +20mm tread at each corner isn't worth $XX.XX

I'm not trying to be a douche or pick sides. Neither of you is backing down from an argument that is losing its meaning.

Jarvis, Jay was the one who took objection to my bit about economics and moved the argument into another place that wasn't there to start. For the most bang for the buck tire, it might not be 205. It may be 225-50-15 or 225-45-16 or 215-45-16. That's not what I started saying, nor am trying to say. He wanted proof that marginal benefit decreased. This moved the argument to an adjacent, which isn't what I was talking about to begin with.

Back to what I was saying before Jay derailed the thread, HPDE-Specific marginal benefit in my mindset to roadracing ends AFTER 205s. Once the tire no longer gets greasy, it doesn't help anyone learn anymore in HPDEs, but simply COSTS MORE. Yes, your CAR will go faster, but that doesn't matter, and any instructor should agree with that....it's YOU getting faster/better is what matters. [And yes, when you are in Group A or HPDE 4, you'll want to raise the bar, but that's not what the topic is about.]

I'm not willing to spend anymore than on 205-50-15s because there is no failure in their use. They do their job. Since they do there job, it doesn't matter if any wider tires do them better really. This whole argument is out of Jay's splitting hairs and being a jackass.

[Mystikal]

Back to what I was saying before Jay derailed the thread, HPDE-Specific marginal benefit in my mindset to roadracing ends AFTER 205s. Once the tire no longer gets greasy, it doesn't help anyone learn anymore in HPDEs, but simply COSTS MORE. Yes, your CAR will go faster, but that doesn't matter, and any instructor should agree with that....it's YOU getting faster/better is what matters. [And yes, when you are in Group A or HPDE 4, you'll want to raise the bar, but that's not what the topic is about.]

Excellent. If you made this clear cut statement earlier, I wouldn't have called you out. What you said before is still false, but this is great info.

Go drink a beer or something, freak.

[rwh11385]

...but I do know 225's versus 215's versus 205's. Funny thing, isn't it.

And I know you have anger management issues, and I know this point you just wrote out so beautifully is valid. I still don't think you know enough to claim 205's are the perfect size for the E30 (I don't either, just so that's clear).

Jay, if you don't know anything about roadracing, you're not in the position to say I don't know enough to say 205-50-15s are the perfect size for e30s for HPDEs. Hence, STFU.

Once you successfully derailed the thread, it jumped into diminishing returns, and benefits. I am NOT saying that 205-50-15s is the best tire for your dollar in general. Who knows what is. Research Auto-X times / $ spent and find out.

BUT, what i said was about the cheapest tire that does its job is best for HPDEs, and that is 205-50-15 in my experience.

[rwh11385]

Excellent. If you made this clear cut statement earlier, I wouldn't have called you out. What you said before is still false, but this is great info.

Go drink a beer or something, freak.

Fine, I should just explain why anything more than 205s doesn't matter to me in HPDEs more clearer TO PEOPLE GIVING ME SHIT who haven't done one...... or people who don't know about them could just give not me shit.....

whatever. fuck this. I have MS Excel homework. and seems this dumbasfuck argument has reached an end

[Mystikal]

BUT, what i said was about the cheapest tire that does its job is best for HPDEs, and that is 205-50-15 in my experience.

You're assuming this "job" has a clear cut line of acceptability. Different tracks, ambient temps, car setups, driving style, even PSI can affect this "job" qualification. It is also clearly NOT a boolean quality, performance is on a relative scale.

And for all you know, 225s may raise your expectations. My point is, you don't know.