VW designs/engineering a little... off?

[tranceguy]

Am I the only one who thinks that VW does some F'd up stuff on their cars? For instance, to change the thermostat on my friend's '97 GTI, we had to drop this, what I call "plastic-cluster-fuck-box", out from under the intake manifold and disassemble it. WTF? Why? 90% of the cars out there it just pops in the block. ~20 minute job (once coolant is drained). Here's another thing, why design the intake manifold so it runs 2-3 times the normal length of an intake manifold? The one on the VR6 runs from the back of the engine, OVER the entire valve cover and drops in the front. Last I checked, heat rises and hot air = bad. Next, the placement of the engine. The VR6 engine is actually pretty compact as a result of it's 14(?) degree V-shape. So why put it as far forward as possible? You could fit half of another engine BEHIND the one that's already in there. There's all kinds of space. The drive axles actually angle backward a little to get out to the wheels. I could go on and on about stuff that, from a logical stand point, MAKES NO SENSE. I don't see why some people are so die-hard over these things. Sure, I like their styling, but that's about it. No way in hell would I want to work on one or even drive one everyday.

Sorry, I just had to get that out. Anyone else out there look at the way they do things and just scratch their head?

[matt325is]

You know what, after this past week, I feel the SAME WAY. We changed the timing chains in my friends 97 golf III. It was rediculous. Since the engine is shoehorned in there sideways, the serpentine belt is on the passenger side of the engine, and the timing chains and tranny/flywheel assembly are on the drivers side. So to change the chains, you must remove all of the top end (intake mani, valve cover, timing chain covers...) and also drop the tranny, remove clutch, remove flywheel, then make sure everything is lined up. It took us a bit of time. So we get everything back together, adn find out that he leaks coolant from the thermostat housing. So that was another 1hr job after we got all of the correct seals and such.

The engine is cool because its somewhat small (because of its staggered V setup). And can produce a bit of power. But I think the coolest part about it is the sound of the intake under WOT, it gives the coolest sound ever. But to work on the engine, its complete hell. BTW, make sure you have a torque wrench that goes to 10Nm because all of the bolts that connect to the hard plastic parts are that torque rating.

matt

[tonytony]

matt you're car is pimp shit, I just had to get that off my chest sorry I couldn't hold it in no more :)

[trent]

Re: VW designs/engineering a little... off?

Am I the only one who thinks that VW does some F'd up stuff on their cars? For instance, to change the thermostat on my friend's '97 GTI, we had to drop this, what I call "plastic-cluster-fuck-box", out from under the intake manifold and disassemble it. WTF? Why? 90% of the cars out there it just pops in the block. ~20 minute job (once coolant is drained). Here's another thing, why design the intake manifold so it runs 2-3 times the normal length of an intake manifold? The one on the VR6 runs from the back of the engine, OVER the entire valve cover and drops in the front. Last I checked, heat rises and hot air = bad. Next, the placement of the engine. The VR6 engine is actually pretty compact as a result of it's 14(?) degree V-shape. So why put it as far forward as possible? You could fit half of another engine BEHIND the one that's already in there. There's all kinds of space. The drive axles actually angle backward a little to get out to the wheels. I could go on and on about stuff that, from a logical stand point, MAKES NO SENSE. I don't see why some people are so die-hard over these things. Sure, I like their styling, but that's about it. No way in hell would I want to work on one or even drive one everyday.

Sorry, I just had to get that out. Anyone else out there look at the way they do things and just scratch their head?

I 110% agree. I do a lot of work on VW/Audi/Volvo/Other makes and it seems that everything was designed as an afterthought. This is why I say they are shitball cars.

[clutterbucker]

Although this is just a safety mechanism...on my friends 2003 passat 1.8t, he has to remove the front valence/bumper just to change a headlight bulb. Pretty out of the way if you ask me.
His motor, the vertically mounted 1.8t has a TON of room behind it....basically another half an engine worth of room. Makes no sense to me...maybe to decrease engine noise since there is a second wall between the driver and motor that way. Someone write a letter to VW....ask them why they do these things. ESPECIALLY ask them about the Harlequin....for God's sake.

[Bryson]

vertically mounted 1.8t??


long intake runners might be for torque, and the motor being farther forward might help the FWD cars get traction by adding weight in front..

[NickP]

Re: VW designs/engineering a little... off?

I 110% agree. I do a lot of work on VW/Audi/Volvo/Other makes and it seems that everything was designed as an afterthought. This is why I say they are shitball cars.

Sorry to get OT but how do you like working on the Volvo's - the red block motor'd cars (b230x etc) are so great to wrench on

[Spaz]

Re: VW designs/engineering a little... off?

Am I the only one who thinks that VW does some F'd up stuff on their cars? For instance, to change the thermostat on my friend's '97 GTI, we had to drop this, what I call "plastic-cluster-fuck-box", out from under the intake manifold and disassemble it. WTF? Why? 90% of the cars out there it just pops in the block. ~20 minute job (once coolant is drained). Here's another thing, why design the intake manifold so it runs 2-3 times the normal length of an intake manifold? The one on the VR6 runs from the back of the engine, OVER the entire valve cover and drops in the front. Last I checked, heat rises and hot air = bad. Next, the placement of the engine. The VR6 engine is actually pretty compact as a result of it's 14(?) degree V-shape. So why put it as far forward as possible? You could fit half of another engine BEHIND the one that's already in there. There's all kinds of space. The drive axles actually angle backward a little to get out to the wheels. I could go on and on about stuff that, from a logical stand point, MAKES NO SENSE. I don't see why some people are so die-hard over these things. Sure, I like their styling, but that's about it. No way in hell would I want to work on one or even drive one everyday.

Sorry, I just had to get that out. Anyone else out there look at the way they do things and just scratch their head?

I 110% agree. I do a lot of work on VW/Audi/Volvo/Other makes and it seems that everything was designed as an afterthought. This is why I say they are shitball cars.

exactly my feelings

[clutterbucker]

Yah they laterally mounted the 1.8t in the Jetta, but, wait, did I say vertically? I'm going by vertical and horizontal, not lonigtudinal and lateral. Whatever the correct terms are, the Passat 1.8t stretches front to back where the Jetta goes side to side. Either way, it has a ton of room behind it...basically a double firewall, an 8 inch gap between the two firewalls.

[AdamF 88iS]

I did an engine swap on a 2.0 new beetle this past week. I agree there is some backwards shit on VWs now a days.

A friend of mine who used to be a tech at the local VW dealer said that at the factory tech school the instructor warned everybody: These cars are made to go together on the line, not come apart. Beware.

[e30Matt]

Don't ever attempt a suspension install on a New Beetle. Just don't. Accept the fact that you will kill yourself before it's done.

I know, myself and a couple of friends tried it, and it took two days of solid work to get it on.

[Z3Jonathan]

Although this is just a safety mechanism...on my friends 2003 passat 1.8t, he has to remove the front valence/bumper just to change a headlight bulb. Pretty out of the way if you ask me.
His motor, the vertically mounted 1.8t has a TON of room behind it....basically another half an engine worth of room. Makes no sense to me...maybe to decrease engine noise since there is a second wall between the driver and motor that way. Someone write a letter to VW....ask them why they do these things. ESPECIALLY ask them about the Harlequin....for God's sake.

The room is likely for crash worthiness. More room the engine has to move = the less likely it is to enter or deform the cabin area. That and manufacturability is somewhat of an issue.

This is why often times an automaker will say there isn't room for a larger engine. Even though you could physically shoe horn the motor in, it could represent an issue in crash testing.

[tranceguy]

Although this is just a safety mechanism...on my friends 2003 passat 1.8t, he has to remove the front valence/bumper just to change a headlight bulb. Pretty out of the way if you ask me.
His motor, the vertically mounted 1.8t has a TON of room behind it....basically another half an engine worth of room. Makes no sense to me...maybe to decrease engine noise since there is a second wall between the driver and motor that way. Someone write a letter to VW....ask them why they do these things. ESPECIALLY ask them about the Harlequin....for God's sake.

The room is likely for crash worthiness. More room the engine has to move = the less likely it is to enter or deform the cabin area. That and manufacturability is somewhat of an issue.

This is why often times an automaker will say there isn't room for a larger engine. Even though you could physically shoe horn the motor in, it could represent an issue in crash testing.

Why move the motor forward so it wouldn't enter the cabin? Redesign the front that it crumples in other places. Seems like a "round-about, mickey mouse" way to solve a problem.

And I COMPLETELY agree with the "seems like everything is an afterthought" statement. That's EXACTLY what it seems like.

[clutterbucker]

Right....the extra room is behind the motor when it very well could be in front of the motor to absorb minor crash crumpling and not damage the motor. It's like running into a wall head first, or putting your arms out before you hit. Seems like it would make a bit more sense. And it's so true a bout them being made to go together on the line and not come apart. You have to lift the motor just to change the oil pan on an 03 passat. Holy crap.

[PanamaE30]

Wow.. for once all those brazilian made VW shitboxes don't seem all that bad...

those have such a small engine you could literally stand in the engine bay between the engine and the front of the car :P