Which engine would you get?

[MichaelH]

I have decided that I am going to do the engine swap in my e30, and I am trying to decide what to get. I do not want a 2.5 m50. Those that have experience care to comment??? I am thinking about:

3.0 s50 US (can get one for $4,000 w/ new quality rebuild-complete engine w/ tranny)
3.0 s50 euro ($6,000 30k miles no tranny)
2.8 Z3 aluminum (+OBD1 conversion) (not found one yet)
3.2 s52 US (+OBD1 conversion) (not found one yet)

Any input?

[Super Eta]

Re: Which engine would you get?

I have decided that I am going to do the engine swap in my e30, and I am trying to decide what to get. I do not want a 2.5 m50. Those that have experience care to comment??? I am thinking about:

3.0 s50 US (can get one for $4,000 w/ new quality rebuild-complete engine w/ tranny)
3.2 s52 US (+OBD1 conversion) (not found one yet)

Money wise 3.0 US but if you can find a 3.2 S52 US the get the 3.2 but the euro would be kinda kool but its a bit expensive plus your not getting a tranny

[rwh11385]

personally, there's only two real choices before you.

Since you're considering the Euro M3 motor, i'm guessing you can afford it, and it gets major props as an amazing engine. It has 286hp and 6 throttle bodies. That's killer.

But the Z3 M52 would be tight, but more for it's lightweight qualities. The aluminum block would be good if you want to strip the car a lil and make it really lightweight. Of course, if you go Al, you should also get a CF hood, delete A/C, and remove the back seat to make the car even lighter.

I'm not really sure what you plan with your E30, so I can't really advise anymore than these general points.

The US 3.0 is not as good as the Euro, obviously, and niether is the OBDII variant. The 3.2 from the US might make ~20hp (guessing) than stock with the OBDI swap, it still is behind the Euro in standing HP and potential.

You want a light E30 and wanna balance it? Aluminum Z3 2.8
You want a powerhouse with a rare and uber-cool engine? Euro 3.0

[Super Eta]

Well now that i know some background on the engines

Euro for power and Z3 M52 if you want something lightweight

[MichaelH]

Is the euro really worth +$2,000 more than the s50 US? With that kind of extra money a lot could be put into the US engine....

[kidrobot]

Here's my 2c in order:

• S52 Euro if you can get it.
• Turbo'd S52 US Spec
• 3.0 Euro Spec

Everything else has absolutely no appeal to me.
If you want a little recognition, I would just stick to
Euro's. All the swaps regardless though are pretty
diy unless you can't tell a screwdriver from a pallet
jack. I have my eyes on a Euro Spec S52 right
now but I don't have close to enough $$.

[rwh11385]

Is the euro really worth +$2,000 more than the s50 US? With that kind of extra money a lot could be put into the US engine....

YES

For that kinda money, you could get a Euro HFM, Shrick cams, and a chip. Hold on......

Turnermotorsports.com - and this is a great value too!

E36 M3 1995 TMS Euro HFM/Schrick Camshaft Upgrade Kit

Our top-of-the-line engine upgrade for the 1995 M3 produces and additional 57 horsepower! A Conforti Cold-Air Intake with larger European mass air sensor, Schrick camshafts, 24lb fuel injectors, and a specially-calibrated performance chip deliver extraordinary output. Many people have tried to copy this kit but no one has perfected it like Turner Motorsport!

Applications: 1995-1995 M3 (E36)
Price: $2,369.00



Review of this upgrade.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/projectcars/0201ec_projbmw/index.html

So for $2,400, you're getting ~297hp. You could easily get better than 300hp with just a chip on the Euro motor, and should be at least cheaper than $400.

[rwh11385]

Okay, i was a little off...... one chip i found was for $600......

BMW 3 Series (E36)
Year Description New HP Type Part # ² Price USD Price Euro
1993-1995 M3 3.0 Euro 286hp 305 1 101-30x 599 599

http://www.esstuning.com/bmw_chip.html

but 305hp is pretty sweet.

[Stu]

You guys are completely missing the point.

Peak horsepower doesn't mean anything. What matters is where you're getting the power. Euro 6-throttle motors don't pull any harder than US single-throttles until about 4500-5000rpm. In BMW CCA Club Racing, the guys with built US 3.2's are pulling on the 6-throttle guys coming out of corners because of the mid-range torque advantage. Sure, at the very end of the straights, the 6-throttles have pulled a bit, but all they do is scream until 7500, 8000.

Also keep in mind that a Euro motor swap will require either a custom brake booster or NO brake booster. That's right, the 6-throttle intake manifold makes for NO room for a brake booster, unless you have one remote mounted. You will also spend more having a shop do the wiring and engine install.

Furthermore, the cost of PARTS for the 6-throttle motors is outrageous. Ignition coils are about $90 a pop, whereas they are about $35 a piece for a US motor. Keep in mind you have 6 of those sum'bitches. Don't get me started on the cost of upgrades for Euro motors (ECU's, exhausts, etc).

I would go with a US 3.0 or 3.2, OBD-1 regardless. They are a tried and true install, the parts are available everywhere, they have truckloads of mid-range, they pull like hell up top, they are cheaper than Euro motors, and the install and wiring is just simpler. Go pick up a 3.0 or 3.2, a swap kit, the parts needed....and throw it in there.

If I remember correctly Michael, it's an '89 325i? If so, you've just made your US 3.0/3.2 install a few steps easier.
You can use, from your car:
-radiator
-overflow tank
-tranny
-driveshaft
-diff (may want to get a limited slip)

The guys with US 3.0's and 3.2's with common upgrades are getting lots of power and torque out of them, with outstanding curves.

Typical bolt-ons:
-Euro HFM, 21.5# injectors (standard on 3.2)
-Custom software to match HFM/injectors
-pulleys
-fan delete
-custom intake setup
-exhaust (deletion of cats)

These guys are getting 230+ wheel horsepower.


You make the call, but I just put in my thoughts.


What would I do? Either a 3.0 or 3.2 US motor.....OBD-1, regardless.

[Digitalwave]

:arrow:

[Giorgio]

I think an aluminum 2.8 would be awesome, you save like 100 pounds and e30s are already light as hell.

[Bryson]

go Stu.

exactly what octane would you run with a CHIPPED euro motor? stock chip takes 98...
remove the rear seat if you get an alu 2.8, clever. If he doesn't have leather, that back seat weighs nothing. If he bought CF front shit and deleted AC, he'd be better off pulling the spare, if anything. How about dropping in the 2.8 and leaving it nicely balanced?

sure a euro swap is cool, but you could build a nice FI m50 for the same price, except you'd have assloads of power. At least that's what I'd do

and kidrobot, there were no s52 euro motors, sorry bud. s50b30 &s50b32 as I understand it
sweet sig and avatar though

[FredK]

RON: Research Octane Number
MON: Manufacturer's Octane Number

In Europe, premium is RON 98. Our gas is rated with an average: pump octane = (RON+MON)/2.

US 93 octane is roughly equivalent to 98 RON. At least, this is my understanding. Feel free to quash this information if you find a good info source. European gas often contains less sulfur than US gas. That is about the only difference, I believe.

I'd go Z3 aluminum block, bore to 85mm, JE pistons, M3 3.2 crank and rods. If this is technically feasible, that is. :D I'm pretty sure it is, that seemed to be the consensus on a previous thread about the aluminum block.

Isn't the swap easier if you go with an S50 head and intake? How hard is it to defeat the EWS found in the 96+ cars anyway?

And how about that Racing Dynamics R35 engine? That thing looks SICK! I think it has a touch under 100mm stroke on it. Of course, the cost of getting one would probably be insane. I dunno if they rebuild older engines either, not that it would be terribly difficult to do so if they've kept all of the machining programs and whatnot. I've never heard of anyone running it though. Vaporware?

http://www.rdsport.com/US_Site/Technology/R35Motor.htm

[MattM20]

I think an aluminum 2.8 would be awesome, you save like 100 pounds and e30s are already light as hell.

51lbs to be exact compared to a regular 2.8 M52, maybe a little more on a S52 for whatever reasons. but the weight savings in no way makes up for the missing 50hp from a S50, performance wise, unless youre that concerned about weight dist.

[rwh11385]

go Stu.

exactly what octane would you run with a CHIPPED euro motor? stock chip takes 98...
remove the rear seat if you get an alu 2.8, clever. If he doesn't have leather, that back seat weighs nothing. If he bought CF front shit and deleted AC, he'd be better off pulling the spare, if anything. How about dropping in the 2.8 and leaving it nicely balanced?

sure a [sic] euro swap is cool, but you could build a nice FI m50 for the same price, except you'd have assloads of power. At least that's what I'd do

and kidrobot, there were no s52 euro motors, sorry bud. s50b30 &s50b32 as I understand it
sweet sig and avatar though

Yes, go Stu go. I didn't know Euro motors don't fit like US motors do. How's gstuning fit, relocated brake booster probably? Doesn't matter.......besides ruining kidrobot's dreams

Stu's probably right about the midrange torque being more important than high-end power. But me and my friend see the Euro M3 motors as our holy grail, or however you would want to put it. He's seriously considering putting a Euro 3.2 in his LTW M3 (96) ! [I really ought to get him to post here, he has a 98 528, the LTW, and his mom has a 330xi.] That would be awesome. Anyway, I have a personal attraction to the Euro motor, so I recommended it........ Stu's dad is the expert, and apple doesn't fall far from the tree......so maybe listen to him! :)

Bryson, how come people on this board have to be bitches all the time?
Anyway, Euro + chip seems to work on US gas...... 8)

My POINT on the Z3 block isn't that you'd need to buy a CF hood. It is that if he's going to buy a aluminum block, he might as well delete as much weight on the rest of a car. Paying a lot for a rare block and going to lengths to save 50lbs is stupid if you don't do the same for the entire car. I didn't mention the spare tire, ass, because I felt it could be assumed, that if someone wanted to track a car, or autocross, that'd be out of the car. But the rear seat is a very important aspect of an automobile, and its removal is a sign of extreme measures. So, if he'd pay for a Z3 block, he should be willing to remove that. If you're looking to save 50lb on the lighter block, why not another 50lb losing A/C ????? And you should probably look at CF hood, lightweight trunk lid, etc etc. Racing shells instead of the heavy stock seats, remove carpeting, sound deadening, etc. The list goes on and on about what can be taken out of an E30. CD player? Who needs it on the track? But some simple things (not as simple as a spare tire) could be rear seat, CF hood, and A/C removal. Those are called suggestions. No one needs to be a prick on this board, Bryson. ;)

As far as turbo goes? Meh, yeah, a possibilty. AA tuning has some tight kits. Work real well on M3 engines. But then again, I have no idea what he's planning.

The guys with US 3.0's and 3.2's with common upgrades are getting lots of power and torque out of them, with outstanding curves.

Typical bolt-ons:
-Euro HFM, 21.5# injectors (standard on 3.2)
-Custom software to match HFM/injectors
-pulleys
-fan delete
-custom intake setup
-exhaust (deletion of cats)

These guys are getting 230+ wheel horsepower.

E36 M3 1995 Conforti Euro Intake Kit
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...D=JCINTAKEEURO
Euro HFM, chip, Intake Sale Price: $985.00
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...UCT_ID=24LBINJ
E36 M3 1995 Bosch 24-lb Fuel Injector Set Price: $239.70
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...UCT_ID=EVO-PP1
Power Pulleys Sale Price: $299.95

http://www.understeer.com/

http://www.ohiomotorcycle.com/understeer/onlinestore-engine.shtml

E36 Fan Delete Kit - $90

Either buy a S50, or buy the 3.2 and convert it to OBDI and you can equip your ride with all these goodies.

Besides these items, there are also Schrick Cams. They "will result in an additional 16-19 hp over the Euro Intake's increases. I posted the Dyno for the Schrick, Euro HFM, 24lb, Intake, and Chip before. Some E36 drivers like them, and that's why you see M3 camshafts for sale in classifieds.

I know Stu will post a reply saying he loves his stock cams. If he didn't he would have probably put the Schricks in his motor. (He has damn near everything else, except these) I know on one thread Stu commented on how he loves the mid-range torque of the M3 camshafts. The schrick go for more top-end power. It's all about preference.

Since mine and the others Euro motor ideas got shot down, i change my vote. Definately go for an US M3.....unless you're trying to make a really lightweight car, then go Al.

EDIT: Stu said about his motor - "Stock M3 cams are awesome for the street. I could go with Schricks and solid lifters and have lots of power til 7500+, but I really like the midrange of the stock cams. "