Cosworth Benz (top gear inspired)

[Ryan...]

After watching the 2nd episode of this season's Top Gear, I fear I may have fallen in love with the little 16v Mercedes. I'm reading up on them and I'm really considering scrapping my e30 turbo project ideas and jumping ship for this Benz. To me it seems like a "cheaper" version of what the e30 M3 stood for; small engine, RWD, and high revving fun times
Note: I'd still have my rusty ass 318is for when the Benz got stored in winter...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150466764114&ssPageNam e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

So, what say thee?

1. Turbo e30 325i, moderate boost.
2. Mercedes Benz with Cosworth built motor?

[nickflic3]

Just cuz of TopGear?? I suggest you lurk on some Merc forums before jumping ship right away or you could end up kicking yourself later. Just my

Edit: Just seeing that your an advanced member. If you really like it then might as well better invest your time learning about them instead and put the e30 on the back burner.

[Ryan...]

Yeah I won't just dive headfirst into something like this without researching. I've read about some maint. nightmares, but my uncle was a Merc mechanic in the 80s, so this would be right up his alley :)

[george graves]

Didn't the US get a diesel verson of the 190? I'd start with that. Find the MB equivalent of a m30(or a cheap motor that isn't going to cost 7k to rebuild), swap and boost. Rims, suspension. Done.

[briansjacobs]

I do like Mercedes and Cossi 190 was a great car. But you think an E30 M3 is pricey to maintain, this car can be nuts! And there are not an cheap motorswaps like the E30. Again awesome car, close to the M3 in performance but it was a 4 door, AWESOME. But they are money pits

[Ryan...]

There were a few diesel versions around that time, not sure if the 190 was one of them.. I'm not really looking to boost what would be my first Merc. I'd keep the engine stock, and modify the suspension and most likely exhaust. I don't see how a rebuild could cost 7k, perhaps you mean if I had a shop do it? My family is full of life long mechanics, including one Merc and one Porsche mechanic. We're pretty close and I'm sure they'd actually enjoy teaching me about a classic such as this.

The only reason I wanted to boost an e30 is because I wanted a challenge and I'm kind of bored with my 318. However, I can still boost my 318is down the road if I so choose.

[ZM Blue Devil]

Join us.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=162904

[ayemattyyy]

A good family friend owns one, and they are expensive but fun as hell to own. They seem to age really well(at least the 16v with the ground effects kit), much like the m3.
Good luck.
Matt

[mrsleeve]

. I don't see how a rebuild could cost 7k, perhaps you mean if I had a shop do it? My family is full of life long mechanics, including one Merc and one Porsche mechanic. We're pretty close and I'm sure they'd actually enjoy teaching me about a classic such as this.

Cozzie in anything is like going to BMW and telling they you need S38/S14 parts. You give them your credit card, they make the orders, you wait for the shit to arivie from the father land. And you dont ask about how much the shit costs because if you have to ask you cant afford them.

Just a FYI S38 to rebuild is pushing 10k in parts that are only available from BMW and the your local dealer.

[shiftbmw]

Having owned both, the 2.3 16v is a fun car, however it is much much further removed from its racing counterpart than is the E30 M3. The Cossie is not nearly as raw and in my opinion, not as fun to drive.

I don't really equate the US Cossie with the E30 M3, but moreso the 325is. I think they are a pretty good comparison. The M3 is certainly a head above in terms of sheer driving pleasure and performance.

The E30 aftermarket is far more substantial as well. Good luck finding much of anything performance related for the Cossie that isn't custom.

*edit* The fuel injection on the Cossie positively blows. Plan on hating life when you are tinkering with that system.

[Zues]

I too have owned a 2.3 16v. I also own a turbo w124. They really are great cars If you have the opportubity i would try and aquire both a 2.3 and an e30. Anyways peachparts.com benzword.org mbworld.org. If you have any questions about these cars, pm me.

[Ryan...]

Join us.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=162904

SWEET :)

Cozzie in anything is like going to BMW and telling they you need S38/S14 parts. You give them your credit card, they make the orders, you wait for the shit to arivie from the father land. And you dont ask about how much the shit costs because if you have to ask you cant afford them.

Just a FYI S38 to rebuild is pushing 10k in parts that are only available from BMW and the your local dealer.

Damn I didn't know they'd be quite this expensive, I kinda thought from reading some stuff on benz forums that it was possibly just the hype that usually comes with an older, foreign car?

I don't really equate the US Cossie with the E30 M3, but moreso the 325is. I think they are a pretty good comparison. The M3 is certainly a head above in terms of sheer driving pleasure and performance.

The E30 aftermarket is far more substantial as well. Good luck finding much of anything performance related for the Cossie that isn't custom.

*edit* The fuel injection on the Cossie positively blows. Plan on hating life when you are tinkering with that system.

Thats what I've stumbled across a couple times... I've read about people buying standalone kits to fix the problem, and they were talking about $2000 worth of parts. Is that something that could be fixed with a Megasquirt type system, or does it have to be Benz specific?

I'm going to keep researching this after work, I may decide to forget all about it, or I may sell all my worldly possessions and take the dive :)

[rThor432]

...or I may sell all my worldly possessions and take the dive :)

Think of it this way--

Would you sell all of your worldly possessions to take a dive on an E30 M3? If yes, then why would you prefer the Benz over the M3? If it is because it is something new to you, you are taking a blind leap of faith. Knowing what you know of the potential maintenance cost of E30 M3's, specifically the engine, do you really want do dive into a Cosworth 190 that will have a similar (if not higher) cost although you really know nothing about them (compared to what you probably know about how E30's work)?

Not telling you to buy an E30 M3 over the Benz, just pointing out that either is a potential money pit. Knowing that, 4-5 years from now and $20-30k later would you rather have the BMW or MB in the garage to go out to in the morning?

Good luck with your decision. All said and done, I'd rather have the Cosworth 190 2.3-16v than a turbo'd 318is. But I'd rather have a turbo 325i than the Cosworth Benz.

Edit: The car in the Ebay link looks decent. I don't think the seller really knows what he has outside of the numbers on the trunklid. Might be a solid buy, but I don't know the market for these. I know that they generally cost a bit less than E30 M3's in similar shape, but other than that I'm clueless.

[Ryan...]

Think of it this way--

Would you sell all of your worldly possessions to take a dive on an E30 M3? If yes, then why would you prefer the Benz over the M3? If it is because it is something new to you, you are taking a blind leap of faith. Knowing what you know of the potential maintenance cost of E30 M3's, specifically the engine, do you really want do dive into a Cosworth 190 that will have a similar (if not higher) cost although you really know nothing about them (compared to what you probably know about how E30's work)?

Not telling you to buy an E30 M3 over the Benz, just pointing out that either is a potential money pit. Knowing that, 4-5 years from now and $20-30k later would you rather have the BMW or MB in the garage to go out to in the morning?

Good luck with your decision. All said and done, I'd rather have the Cosworth 190 2.3-16v than a turbo'd 318is. But I'd rather have a turbo 325i than the Cosworth Benz.

Edit: The car in the Ebay link looks decent. I don't think the seller really knows what he has outside of the numbers on the trunklid. Might be a solid buy, but I don't know the market for these. I know that they generally cost a bit less than E30 M3's in similar shape, but other than that I'm clueless.

Very good points, I appreciate the differing views!

Some of the reasons for wanting a Mercedes are as follows, in no specific order:
1. I want to try something other than a BMW.
2. I want a racing inspired car from that era.
3. I really, really love everything I've read about this car (other than price of repairs) :)
4. The initial cost is much less than most e30 M3s.
5. I'm at the point where I can afford to let the Merc sit for a while, should any expensive repairs become necessary. I have a spare vehicle to drive.
6. I plan on keeping it for many years, being more or less a "fun" car getting around 3k miles a year. I think 5-8 years from now this car would still be very special, and even more rare.
7. While I feel that I'd really like it, I think my uncle would absolutely love to help me work on it. He's a big Merc guy, and his passion for them is what drove me to find my "own" special cars; e30s.

That being said, if this would turn out to be a gigantic money pit that never runs right, I can always wait until I'm older (I'm 21, work 2 jobs, and am 1.5 terms away from getting my degree)...

Plus, I wouldn't be looking to fully restore it, or race it, or really abuse it. I would just love a nice looking, functioning car that will turn heads of those that know about and appreciate older cars. If my rusty old 318is puts a smile on my face, I can't imagine how a car like this would make me feel. Perhaps good enough to overlook the high running cost :D

[FLYNAVY]

Come over to www.190rev.com , lots of info there on the w201, as well as a subforum specific to the 16v cars. Second the notion that it is not a cheap car to repair or maintain, but that being said, probably not a whole lot moreso than many older German cars. Unfortunately the 16v motor doesn't give you quite as much as a stock s14, though there certainly are some pretty heavily built ones around. A somewhat straightforward swap is the 3.6L m104 from the w202 C36, though this is less straightforward for cossie cars, as they are configured for the I-4 rather than a longer MB I-6. If you were serious about this swap, I'd find a sportline 2.6, pull the motor, do the 3.6 swap which will bolt up without much modification (throw in the getrag box from a manual w201, r129, or w124), and then pick up a cheap 16v body kit and interior to make it look right. Hope that helps