Cosworth Benz (top gear inspired)

[Holland]

Depends on if it's an Ur-Quattro or a Sport Quattro. I though Ur's went for considerably less? Still very rare though.

[thornado327i]

These are now well over 70k if you can find one. Great examples sell for 125-150. I have a lead on one but not the $$$ at the moment.

Ty

That's pretty damn expensive. Last time I checked they were closer to 10-15K (still expensive, I know). Finding a decent one for sale is a challenge though.

[tjts1]

Currently awaiting the crusher in a Torronto area junkyard. Not that special.

[europeanplates]

There is only one car from this segment and era I would consider to leave the E30 for.

I'd get that and build the 600+HP monsters they did back in the 80's. Probably more expensive to build than any M3 and MB190 combined, but hell - we can all dream, right?

Just some random google images:

These are now well over 70k if you can find one. Great examples sell for 125-150. I have a lead on one but not the $$$ at the moment.

Ty

[Sepp]

Having driven both a euro spec Cossie, and the US version, there is quite the difference in the two cars. (much like anyting else in the '80's)
The US versions were a bit watered down compared to the Top Gear car.

Also, the car in the ebay auction...I'll quote. "We bought this car from the Rescue Mission"

This right here made me stop reading the rest of the advert.
Most likely no/little service history.
This is very bad.

The rear suspension alone will be a shit ton of $$$$ to rectify it/when it has problems.

190E is the way to go. I knew of one with a 5 speed for 1500 in Portland.

[Ryan...]

thanks! I won't buy it tomorrow unless my uncle comes with me, most likely I'll come back and report my findings.

[tjts1]

If you're going to look at the car, a few things to keep an eye out for.
If the passeger side of the engine block is oily or wet just below the 3rd and 4th exhaust ports, chances are you're going to have to do the headgasket. Its actually a relatively easy job.
Coolant temp sensors and switches are set to turn on at 100c for the cooling fans and they also tend to fail with age. A lot of these cars run really hot (over 100c in traffic) because of a failed sensor.
Just like the E30, any rubber bits in the suspension tend to wear out with age.
The climate control is way more complicated than it has to be. Its all vacuum powered with multiple failure points
Try to find the newest, best condition example. 6 cyl/5 speeds very rare, 4 cyls manual less so.
If it has trouble with cold starts, its Kjet related. Probably the cold start injector is not firing.

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/227777/1/

good luck

[Ryan...]

Sweet, good info to know!

I'm going to hopefully look at that 190e tomorrow, hope it turns out to be nice..

[tjts1]

As you can tell, I don't know much about the C230. But I'm guessing that's why the engine is many times cheaper than the M102. I still think it would be a cool budget swap.

It would be an excellent swap. A lot more usable torque than the original 16 valve too.
$1300 complete with a 6 speed manual.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/1847058843.html

[Emre]

The M111 engine in the early C230 is a completely different animal from the 16 valve M102. Other than the bell housing bolt patter, they have nothing in common. Sort of like comparing an M42 with an S14.

I didn't know that either. I had heard that it was based on the M102.

As you can tell, I don't know much about the C230. But I'm guessing that's why the engine is many times cheaper than the M102. I still think it would be a cool budget swap.

[tjts1]

So which of the two is better, it sounds like you're saying the 1.8 is better/more advanced? I really know almost nothing about Mercs, but the M42 vs S14 is something I understand completely :p

The original 2.3-16 valve (M102) is by far the most desirable but also hardest to find and more expensive. The 190e 2.3 8 valve (likely the one you found) is the same engine block with a different cylinder head. Depending on model year it had ~135hp. The C class came after the 190e had the M111 2.2 or 2.3 liter engine with or without supercharger. Its a more modern 16 valve engine with EFI and VVT on the intake side. It doesn't have the peak power of the M102 16 valve but its much easier on the wallet as a daily driver. You won't find this engine in the 190e unless you swap it in. They are dime a dozen if you want to go to the trouble of swapping it. The even later M271 1.8 liter engine is yet another completely different family. An easiler cheaper option would be to Megasquirt the 8 valve you already have then add a turbo.

The shifter linkage is a relatively easy fix. Just swap out some rubber bushings.

[Ryan...]

If you like the 190e chassis, that's certainly a good way to go. Pick up a regular W201 with a straight body and no rust. Should be able to find an excellent example for under $3000.

Then, find yourself a wrecked C230 Kompressor. It's got basically a detuned version of the twin-cam Cosworth engine...plus a turbo...plus modern EFI. There are plenty around, and many of them came with 6-speed manual transmissions. Swap one into the 190e chassis and you should have yourself a screamer.

Just be careful. Not all C230 Kompressors were created equal: early models had a 2.3L; later ones were 1.8L.

I'm pretty set on my next car being a 190e. I found a local-ish one for $1800 obo. He says it has no rust, interior is nice, all gauges work, little tear in the front seat, 130k miles, and best of all its a 5 speed. He said the linkage needs to be replaced because the shifter is very sloppy. I'm waiting for pics, and if it looks good I'm going to go check it out. I'll keep my eyes open for a wrecked car like you mentioned, shouldn't be too hard, and I'd have no problem waiting for a good deal to pop up, especially if the car is already a 5 speed...
I'm guessing the 2.3 is more desirable? I'd love to go research this on 190rev but I can't register, and they haven't returned my emails...

The M111 engine in the early C230 is a completely different animal from the 16 valve M102. Other than the bell housing bolt patter, they have nothing in common. Sort of like comparing an M42 with an S14.

So which of the two is better, it sounds like you're saying the 1.8 is better/more advanced? I really know almost nothing about Mercs, but the M42 vs S14 is something I understand completely :p

[thornado327i]

There is only one car from this segment and era I would consider to leave the E30 for.

I'd get that and build the 600+HP monsters they did back in the 80's. Probably more expensive to build than any M3 and MB190 combined, but hell - we can all dream, right?

Just some random google images:

[tjts1]

^^ Thats what I'm finding out more everyday :(
I really appreciate your insight, its looking like I may end up getting a standard 190e, swapping in a manual tranny, and then going with an engine swap if I feel the need. Once I finally get on 190rev I'll be able to continue my research more fully.

Sportline with C36 engine + Getrag swap.

http://190rev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37518&highlight=3.6

Then, find yourself a wrecked C230 Kompressor. It's got basically a detuned version of the twin-cam Cosworth engine...plus a turbo...plus modern EFI

The M111 engine in the early C230 is a completely different animal from the 16 valve M102. Other than the bell housing bolt patter, they have nothing in common. Sort of like comparing an M42 with an S14.

[Emre]

I have owned two C230's they where supercharged!!!

My mistake.

Still, it would be an interesting swap.