CGT crash at fontana speedway

[permit]

That sucks about the crash, I never did like the CGT all that much, and meow I really would never buy one.

I'd rather be tearing it up in the new Cayman S.

[uofom3]

dude, the cgt is one of the most overbuilt street cars ever. the reason they died was the same reason as dale, but not like rob said. in fact, the vector of earnhardt's crash was only ~60mph. but the fact that the chassis is so damn rigid, none of the force was absorbed. an overbuilt stiff chassis deflects most of the energy, and the only absorbable structures are the occupants. it's the same problem that nascar faced a few years back (and still does). open wheel cars are built better tho, they are built to fly apart which dissapates the energy. that's why a driver can leave a 150+ mph accident relatively unscathed in most professional open wheel cars today.

he speaks the truth.
I read an article a little back about how guard-rails in f1 events are moved and positioned to accept a car at over 150 mph. The curve of the wall dissipates some of the impact and helps cradle the car down to a slower speed.. IRL might be doin something like this too.
having the course entry in the 150 mph zone is pretty rediculous.

[RCWells]

Not to argue the safety that is engineered into cars these days, especially "race" cars, but if they had been doing 20mph (exagerratedly slow) they would be bitching about a wrecked CGT today. I understand your point about the vector as well, but speed is still a big part of the equation. The forces that are generated in a high speed crash are obviously going to be much greater than those in a lower speed crash regardless of vectors.

Anyway, it's just a tragedgy that could have and should have been avoided as has been said by factors other than speed.

[uflnuceng]

dude, the cgt is one of the most overbuilt street cars ever. the reason they died was the same reason as dale, but not like rob said. in fact, the vector of earnhardt's crash was only ~60mph. but the fact that the chassis is so damn rigid, none of the force was absorbed. an overbuilt stiff chassis deflects most of the energy, and the only absorbable structures are the occupants. it's the same problem that nascar faced a few years back (and still does). open wheel cars are built better tho, they are built to fly apart which dissapates the energy. that's why a driver can leave a 150+ mph accident relatively unscathed in most professional open wheel cars today.

From what I understand it takes as little a delta (i.e. change in speed over a fraction of a second) as 20mph for the valves in the heart to tear. Crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts and car parts designed to break off during impact dissipate that energy. Force = mass * velocity/time. The more you can increase the time an accident actually occurs (i.e. a vehicle crumpling into a hard object, air bag cushioning you to a stop) the better off you are. However, the faster a car comes to a stop during an accident, the worse off you are. Rigid cars like NASCAR and obviously this porsche GT are obviously the cause of the deaths that occur. I don't know how many F1 accidents I have seen where they start to roll in an open cockpit starting at 240+mph, but then they just stand up and walk away. Its because there is nothing left of the car aside from the cockpit. These guys might have been better off had they hit the wall straight on. Its the side impact the transferred the most energy into their bodies and killed them.

Now my question is... where the fuck was the guy who signals when it is safe to leave the pit and enter the track?

My prayers go out to the families.

[CleanAzzE30z]

I dont think its only the organizers of this event who chose the entrance in the middle of the front straight. Thats just where it is, its at the end of the pits, which is in the middle of the straight in terms of the roval course. Someone dropped the ball on this one. Thats 3 CGT's this year. These kind of supercars whould only be given to the buyer after completing some sort of driver training for shits sake. How are people going to expect people to be driving a car capable of "super car" speeds and things like this not happen. Its just common sense. Im not saying its the drivers fault, but I can almost guarantee you that had some sort of intensely trained driver crashed that was more familiar with track driving and maneuvers, it wouldnt have been so bad. Panic is the enemy. My opinion, thanks for reading. Tragedy in any case for sure, though.

[Digitalwave]

I dont think its only the organizers of this event who chose the entrance in the middle of the front straight. Thats just where it is, its at the end of the pits, which is in the middle of the straight in terms of the roval course. Someone dropped the ball on this one. Thats 3 CGT's this year. These kind of supercars whould only be given to the buyer after completing some sort of driver training for shits sake. How are people going to expect people to be driving a car capable of "super car" speeds and things like this not happen. Its just common sense. Im not saying its the drivers fault, but I can almost guarantee you that had some sort of intensely trained driver crashed that was more familiar with track driving and maneuvers, it wouldnt have been so bad. Panic is the enemy. My opinion, thanks for reading. Tragedy in any case for sure, though.

Who's to say he wasn't a DE instructor with 10 years experience?

Accidents happen, thats why they are called accidents. At least he was going 165mph on a closed track instead of on the street.

[RCWells]

At least he was going 165mph on a closed track instead of on the street.

[Ryan Stewart]

At least he was going 165mph on a closed track instead of on the street.

x elventybillion.

This is turning to shit on 6speedonline, GT, and now here. Time to let it go....

[Charlie]

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/carrera.mpg

This was a hard hit. Neither guy had a chance.

612 hp in a carbon tubbed car with downforce and R compounds. This car has the potential of an ALMS LMP2 car or a Daytona prototype.

As I've mentioned on other lists, this is gonna have to be a wakeup call for a lot of chapters running DE's. Not necessarily for guys bringing out Carrera GT's, but for other drivers of more "pedestrian" new cars such as the 500+ HP M5, 400 HP 997's, 500 HP C6 Z06's, 450 hp Mustangs, 255 hp 330's, etc. These are not modded cars, these are box stock examples from the factory that are heads and tails above what was out there 5-6 years ago. This is not a kid that shows up with a supercharger slapped on an e36 M3, these are bone stock cars. Speeds are going way up, and there is going to have to be regulation changes to accomodate this.

-Charlie

[uflnuceng]

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/carrera.mpg

This was a hard hit. Neither guy had a chance.

...

Speeds are going way up, and there is going to have to be regulation changes to accomodate this.

Ho-ly-crap... the length of those tire marks while he was braking. The crash freaking knocked the engine out of the car. Unbelievable.

However, don't go using that 4-letter-word "regulation". Putting more government in our business has never and will never help anything. You'll get all these tree huggers out there mandating we all have to drive pure electric cars or some shit like that with an electronic governed speed limit of 55mph.

Yes, speeds are going way up. Are those kinda cars getting into the hands of people who can't handle them? Absolutely. Seeing bitches like Paris Hilton on TV driving around in her Porsche Boxster S is enough to make me think that people are buying cars that they can't handle. Christ, I see kids driving around in Ford Probes that I KNOW they can't handle.

Im currently building a 335i which I will turbo and probably be seeing close to 400hp in a car that weighs about 2800lbs. Is that irresponsible? Do I need local or big government telling me that I can't do that? No, pure and simple. But I go to driver schools, emphasis being smooth in my transitions, and focus on being safe.

[Charlie]

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/carrera.mpg

This was a hard hit. Neither guy had a chance.

...

Speeds are going way up, and there is going to have to be regulation changes to accomodate this.

Ho-ly-crap... the length of those tire marks while he was braking. The crash freaking knocked the engine out of the car. Unbelievable.

However, don't go using that 4-letter-word "regulation". Putting more government in our business has never and will never help anything. You'll get all these tree huggers out there mandating we all have to drive pure electric cars or some shit like that with an electronic governed speed limit of 55mph.

Yes, speeds are going way up. Are those kinda cars getting into the hands of people who can't handle them? Absolutely. Seeing bitches like Paris Hilton on TV driving around in her Porsche Boxster S is enough to make me think that people are buying cars that they can't handle. Christ, I see kids driving around in Ford Probes that I KNOW they can't handle.

Im currently building a 335i which I will turbo and probably be seeing close to 400hp in a car that weighs about 2800lbs. Is that irresponsible? Do I need local or big government telling me that I can't do that? No, pure and simple. But I go to driver schools, emphasis being smooth in my transitions, and focus on being safe.

I didn't mean government regulation (although you know this will happen). I'm talking about steps taken at the club level at these schools and lapping days. Yes, you sign a waiver, yes, motorsport is an inherently dangerous activity. But a rash of deaths will make these track leases disappear in a hurry. Novice level, (or hell, intermediate and advanced level) drivers showing up in street cars that are as fast or faster than race cars were 10 years ago with no harnesses, roll cages, HANS devices and the like are going to become a very dangerous combination.

-Charlie

[uflnuceng]

Novice level, (or hell, intermediate and advanced level) drivers showing up in street cars that are as fast or faster than race cars were 10 years ago with no harnesses, roll cages, HANS devices and the like are going to become a very dangerous combination.

Agreed. Im not taking my car to a track until I get it fully prepped. Getting the custom roll bar put in sometime in July.

[CleanAzzE30z]

I dont think its only the organizers of this event who chose the entrance in the middle of the front straight. Thats just where it is, its at the end of the pits, which is in the middle of the straight in terms of the roval course. Someone dropped the ball on this one. Thats 3 CGT's this year. These kind of supercars whould only be given to the buyer after completing some sort of driver training for shits sake. How are people going to expect people to be driving a car capable of "super car" speeds and things like this not happen. Its just common sense. Im not saying its the drivers fault, but I can almost guarantee you that had some sort of intensely trained driver crashed that was more familiar with track driving and maneuvers, it wouldnt have been so bad. Panic is the enemy. My opinion, thanks for reading. Tragedy in any case for sure, though.

Who's to say he wasn't a DE instructor with 10 years experience?

Accidents happen, thats why they are called accidents. At least he was going 165mph on a closed track instead of on the street.

No ones saying it wasnt, but there arent any facts that it was either. It quite well could have been an instructor, in which case I will have been wrong, but in general, I think more "accidents" apply to what Im saying. I freely admit I could be wrong on this one, but theres a good chance Im not. Thats all. ANd yes at least hes opening it up on a closed track, that is a good point. Fuck it, its really quite immaterial at this point anyways. :)

[windnsea00]

I knew Ben pretty well, I had detailed his cars off and on for the past 2 years. He was a super nice guy and a very giving person. He would always give me rides in his cars...2 past cars were his s/c'd 911 carrera convt. w/ coilovers etc. (sleeper and fast!) and his ferrari 360 CS and well the current Carrera GT...He had been to numerous driving schools througout his life and was a very skilled driver. He was totally down to earth unlike most people would think who could own such cars, he always wore a simple t-shirt and shorts. The saddest part was his daughter less than a year old and wife whom he left behind. RIP Ben

[CleanAzzE30z]

I dont think its only the organizers of this event who chose the entrance in the middle of the front straight. Thats just where it is, its at the end of the pits, which is in the middle of the straight in terms of the roval course. Someone dropped the ball on this one. Thats 3 CGT's this year. These kind of supercars whould only be given to the buyer after completing some sort of driver training for shits sake. How are people going to expect people to be driving a car capable of "super car" speeds and things like this not happen. Its just common sense. Im not saying its the drivers fault, but I can almost guarantee you that had some sort of intensely trained driver crashed that was more familiar with track driving and maneuvers, it wouldnt have been so bad. Panic is the enemy. My opinion, thanks for reading. Tragedy in any case for sure, though.

Who's to say he wasn't a DE instructor with 10 years experience?

Accidents happen, thats why they are called accidents. At least he was going 165mph on a closed track instead of on the street.

No ones saying it wasnt, but there arent any facts that it was either. It quite well could have been an instructor, in which case I will have been wrong, but in general, I think more "accidents" apply to what Im saying. I freely admit I could be wrong on this one, but theres a good chance Im not. Thats all. ANd yes at least hes opening it up on a closed track, that is a good point. Fuck it, its really quite immaterial at this point anyways. :)