Increasing (theoretical) resale value.

[nando]

blah blah blah....

.

Okay - Ill be waiting around with cash for when a low miles, all original, perfect condition 325is shows up for $500 in the next 5 years.

but, I won't hold my breath either.

[pandaboo911]

I've flipped a couple cars. Most of them had shitty paint, some dents. I got them a full respray and cleaned up the interior, that's about it. Respray cost me $600 including body work. I still made >$700 on each car.

This is not something you want to do if you plan on keeping your car for the next 5 years. If you do, mods aren't always bad, they just have to be desirable. Something like aftermarket speakers.

Also on the point about expensive wheels adding to a cars value. I would never sell a car with expensive wheels on it. You can always make more money back by selling them separately.

[stamar]

no, not it is not. it's a simple depreciation curve with some market biases added in. it has no relevance on an E30.

but hell, I'll play devils advocate! $500 for a mint condition 325is with an S52 and coilovers? sign me up!

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4671629...termined_.html

the private party values are decided by the actual prices paid. Come back with some really good research on kbb values.

otherwise how would an 89 accord be worth more than an 89 325?

definitely a m3 or a supra is old and valuable. and a 3000gt is old and not worth a lot. Different examples of different things that arent a 325 is.
Theres no specific model to use if in theory a 2002 is worth a lot ( I just saw two go for under 800 on cl, rusty ones though) it doesnt matter its not the same situation.

theres millions of e30s. They arent rare. Just use r3vlimiteds forum as a best case scenario. How many 88 IS 325s sold for 3000$ or up, in the last 5 years do a search.
Dont count on selling an e30 here on the forum for 5000$ because its pimped out. I cant guarantee you wont, because you might but dont count on it.
Count on getting more than kbb because its essentially 0.

Think about it like this, in a few years are you going to spend 5000 on an e30? Is that in your plans ( probably not ). Its only going to get harder and more impossible to get that kind of money from a 25 year old car. Who is the 5000$ used car buyer here? theres probably about 20 5000$ e30s on the forum for every person with 5000$ looking to buy one. Theres only so many old car collecters that cant fix them up themselves with lots of money. They might fight for a 2002, but theres millions and millions of e30s.

Im not arguing with anyone, only goal was to provide some info for people to make a better educated opinion. I dont even care to offer you an opinion I think most educated people have the same opinion about investing in 1000$ of wheels on a car with 200k miles on it.

So theres two possible outcomes I guess. One is that your 88 325 is might be more valuable or the same. Its not too likely though.
Whoever is talking about the value of their 89 325 like they are sure its going to rise has some secret they havent let the rest of us in on. The other is its going to fall like most cars.

Make your investments based on your best educated guess.

I dont think I have any more points really Im pretty sure Im just repeating myself.

The last place you want to go when asking about the value of something is the club. Like the comic book club everyone likes to talk about the full retail of their whole collection all day.
Youre asking about is it smart to put a lot of money in an old car and you go to the club where people put lots of money in old cars??? Not gonna come back with an answer thats rooted in reality.

[jasonbk]

Look at clean e24, e21, e9, e28s on the market and see how much they cost...then you have an answer.

Or look at how much clean supra, fairlady, corolla gts cost.

Also, I don't think gas prices will affect e30's sale because almost all pre-electric cars that are newer than e30 consume same sort of gas anyway.

[mikeb23ft]

Stamar - you make a good point about gas mileage and fuel prices in the next 5-10 years. Very difficult to predict what awaits us in 2017 as far as the price of a gallon of gas is concerned, but it will still be available for sale, so people will still want these cars. It's already an enthusiast car - very few people are buying E30s as non-enthusiast daily driver commuter cars. It would, as you say, be better to buy a Civic for those purposes. But an E30 is something special and will be more so in 5 years. I'm not really 'investing' in my little 88is as I never plan on selling it, but I don't want to get taken to the woodshed on it either if that situation arises.

[Grant318is]

In my opinion, you're completely wrong, but I guess we'll just have to wait 5 years and find out.

This. Mout cars sell above the value. Take a look at any E36 M3 for sale in good condition. They go for 8-10k whereas the kbb value is significantly lower. On top of this, most clean E30s sell for way above the kbb. I bought a clean example for 3k. The kbb is about 1500, but i could easily sell it for 4k. These cars are on the up trend. There are fewer and fewer cleans ones and therefore people are willing to pay more for one.

KBB has no way to tell which values are false and which are honest. Their value is based on the average. They are unable to remove values because they are unable to discern which cars are sold for 500 and which are just claiming a false values.

This thread is about theoretical value. This is about mod value vs resale value.

High resale value items include
Wheels - high quality wheels are easy to part out and hold value.
Hard/expensive maintenance items - complete suframe rebuild, rebuild diffs, quality paint work, engine rebuilds and interior restorations..
Large mods - well done engine swaps, complete coilover suspensions, turbo builds and rare parts.

[bimmerteck]

all cars but especially bmws tend to sell for below the low kbb value.

More so every year.

Wow. So by your math, the M5 and single cab are both so old that they are practically worthless!

[evandael]

ITT, a delusional used car market 'analyst' and expert.


stamar, look at any enthusiast car market. alfa giulia's, datsun 510's, bmw 2002's, toyota MR2's, hell, even clapped out drift mobiles like nissan 240s and toyota AE86's... they all command higher prices than traditional used car market depreciation estimates would predict.

know why? because demand is up (more and more enthusiasts learning of the cars) and supply is down (no more production, and cars get wrecked every day). sure, the average person would only want to pay $500 for a clapped out example of any of those cars, but the average person is not buying these cars. at the end of the day, the car is worth whatever it is to the buyer, using the enthusiast market as a guideline for price.

accordingly, when someone can occasionally get $6K for a well-maintained and tastefully modified 318is, it's only a matter of time before more and more sellers advertise their cars for a similar amount and more and more buyers will pay said amount. and thus, the value of the chassis goes up, on a whole.


don't be misguided and think you will bag a clean 325is for $1000 in 2017. think ten times that number.

[nando]

kbb is not actually an opinion its an average of what all the vehicles sold for in the us in the last year based on dmv records.

no, not it is not. it's a simple depreciation curve with some market biases added in. it has no relevance on an E30.

but hell, I'll play devils advocate! $500 for a mint condition 325is with an S52 and coilovers? sign me up!

[nando]

In the year since I got my car e30 kbb fell about 50% for my car.
For the top most desirable cars with are like the last couple years of convertibles 91 92 it fell less. For the ops car, it went down the toilet. Has a lot more to fall when a top valued 92 325 convertibel is still like 2500-3000. when it reaches 1000-1500 then its at the bottom...


I have only been on the west coast. There is no limited supply of e30s here in cali or in oregon. theres tons of them and they sell very slowly. The owners are often out of touch with what they go for and no one even looks at them.

theres a 91 auto for sale it was 1800 obo and its at 800 on cl I just linked it on the other thread asking for e30 values. Nobody asked to see it I asked the owner to let me buy a few parts if he junks it because ive seen it for months.

kbb in your area could be higher you can take a peek Im totally quoting the west coast kbb. Not canada or wherever either. Theres reasons old cars are worth more there too.


bmws sell as new way more on the west coast too theres a lot of them might make a difference in opinion.

KBB has no relevance on cars that are more than 10-15 years old. it's basically a straight line depreciation curve, not a market value.

and yeah, there are a lot of crappy $800 E30s, but just because there's one high miles, beat to shit, poorly maintained E30 for $800, doesn't mean a low miles, mint condition, well maintained and clean E30 isn't worth $8,000+.

[stamar]

He's forgetting that e30s bottomed out a long time ago and the reason they have gone up is less supply of clean examples and a thriving cult following. This is y a modded m3 can fetch 25-50k and stock 325is can fetch e36 m3 money. U cannot underestimate a cult following.

In the year since I got my car e30 kbb fell about 50% for my car.
For the top most desirable cars with are like the last couple years of convertibles 91 92 it fell less. For the ops car, it went down the toilet. Has a lot more to fall when a top valued 92 325 convertibel is still like 2500-3000. when it reaches 1000-1500 then its at the bottom...


I have only been on the west coast. There is no limited supply of e30s here in cali or in oregon. theres tons of them and they sell very slowly. The owners are often out of touch with what they go for and no one even looks at them.

theres a 91 auto for sale it was 1800 obo and its at 800 on cl I just linked it on the other thread asking for e30 values. Nobody asked to see it I asked the owner to let me buy a few parts if he junks it because ive seen it for months.

kbb in your area could be higher you can take a peek Im totally quoting the west coast kbb. Not canada or wherever either. Theres reasons old cars are worth more there too.


bmws sell as new way more on the west coast too theres a lot of them might make a difference in opinion.

[stamar]

On the chevy malibu forum all the guys who painted their 96 malibus candy red with twin turbochargers huddle together to tell eachother their cars are worth 5000 when kbb says they are worth 500$ if you drive it to the buyer to look at it.

Its the same sort of denial. Theres a magazine, a club. Someone buys one for 5000$ at a meeting....but dont count on that bailing you out.

Its the same for the ford taurus club. Kbb doesnt mean ford taurus... haha...




Their are already 5 cars for sale on the us car market for every 1 buyer.

Within a few years a car that gets less than 35 mpg is possibly going to be considered useless for everyday driving possibly. I dont guarantee this but theres a lot of signs. The same reason you dont see a lot of 8 mpg 78 chevy capris around. Those things were very reliable its just gas made them worth less than nothing. Our e30s dont have much to go to be in the same spot.
Way over 95% of used cars sold go for 1500 or less in the us. The used car buyer can get way better than a e30 for 1500 at this point on the market it would be usually an 18th choice after isuzu rodeo somewhere.

There is a huge trend of used cars being literally abandoned at this point like no time in recent history.

The percent of millionaires looking for a sunday driver e30 that dont already have 4 is pretty much shrinking.



If I had to predict considering all of the factors I definitely would not invest a lot in a 88 325 is and count on getting a fraction of it back selling it anytime soon. I could be wrong.
It depends on what youre buying of course, if you buy things retail or discounted etc.

I would never depend on getting a lot more than kbb for your car or convincing yourself your car is worth a lot more than kbb because then youre in the maybe but probably not territory. All signs point to old used car market taking the biggest dive of our lifetime and soon.

theres data that shows how many 88 325is were sold and for how much last year unfortunately its by state. No guessing about it or optimism necessary, way less than just a year before, and free fall less than the year before.
Theres nothing that shows these cars appreciating in price if someone has some data to present that to the e30 forum asap thatd be something cool to read about we all sticky it.

[mikeb23ft]

You can be hopeful but just in the value an 88 e30 fell in the last year it would be unrealistic to think any e30 would be worth more than 1000 in 5 years. Even in perfect condition with coilovers and an m50 swap.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the internet. 15 years ago did you think 2002 prices were going to go into the shitter? The E30 is going to be a classic car.

I hope you're right, though. Can't wait to have a different built and swapped E30 for every day of the week for just 7k! In 5 short years!

[JinormusJ]

they remove all of those values from the kbb sales.

all cars but especially bmws tend to sell for below the low kbb value.

More so every year.

You can be hopeful but just in the value an 88 e30 fell in the last year it would be unrealistic to think any e30 would be worth more than 1000 in 5 years. Even in perfect condition with coilovers and an m50 swap.

dont even try to sell yourself on it.

there are WAY more valuable cars in their day already below that.

in this area they go for well 300$ to 4500 too like theres a tax day sale.

I suggest you take everything you know about car buying and toss it in the garbage.
KKB is trash when you talk about cars this old. Just because the blue book says something is a certain value doesn't mean it actually IS that value. Sometimes you get below value, sometimes you get high. With such a cult car like this, everything is up in the air because no one knows who actually buys the cars. Are they enthusiast who knows what they're buying and concludes that $5000 is an amazing deal, or some joe-shmo looking for a cheap car to beat on for 2 months and would pay a dime more than $400?

E30s has one of the biggest enthusiast communities for any other car on the planet. That alone will drive up STREET price sales because e30s are still widely sought after in acceptable condition and the competition for buying one at a low price range is feirce. SHOOT. If I had a dollar for every time I got laughed at for wanting to buy an e30 at a KBB value of ~$1100, I could have enough to buy 3 e30s...

My money is on the fact that in 5-years, the very car you described will actually be worth MORE on the street because cars that have been enthusiast maintained, properly swapped, and tastefully modded will be much far and few in between. Less e30s in the junk yard, harder to find used parts; all thse factors will drive up prices in the enthusiast community through the years. Unless in 5-years, of course, they have flying cars that run off urine and a car with rubber and petrol will be obsolete. Not likely...

Your comparing market value and street value, and in the case of these cars, they are no where near the same
Reel is correct

[Vivek]

^that