Do you have a M20 hot rod or swapped Motor?

[nando]

Im pretty sure most s52 swaps cost at least 6k. S54 or s38 is more like 10 or 12. Im not sure what your point is comparing it to a scion that everyone knows isn't fast.

His point is you dont need a weak m50 to have a fun car.

[M44schnell]

Im in the midst of finishing a 2.7i build so this is all interesting to hear. I think it all about what a dude/lady wants, its all about personalization, that's kinda why we have E30 in the first place because its what we want. If you wanted tons of power there lots to chose from for the same/less. For me i just really like the good ol' M20 , its been the most reliable and easiest to work on engine iv ever had(M42,44,50,52) and i just really like the way it sounds.

[Raxe]

Meh, having owned an S38 E30, a 3.1L M20 and having driven an incredible S54 E30 I can confidently tell you all three are oodles of fun... for different reasons.

The S38 is as close to a "race" engine you'll get from a straight swap. It runs hot and loud, it's frighteningly fast at speed and it's expensive to maintain. It's a great swap if you're going to drive the car long and hard - around the city it lacks the low-end torque for bombing between lights and carbons up quickly. Definitely happier the harder you beat on it.

The M20 is pretty much the opposite. It's perfectly content rolling around in traffic, everything shaking and vibrating around you from the lumpy idle. The torque is almost instant from a slow roll - I've nearly lost it more than once on good tires while giving it some jam around a turn. However it's nothing special on the highway, and seems to run out of power (and gears) before the Corvette beside you even notices you.

The S54, on the other hand, felt perfectly at home in both settings. Plenty of power at low range and plenty more in the higher range. It's also more tame compared to both of the above, and would leave both behind in a race. That being said, the refinement comes at the expense of character compared to the older engines. That, to me personally, is enough to put it in third place.


TL;DR - you should choose an engine that suits your needs.

[delatlanta1281]

M20. Build it, run it, kill it.
Rinse,
Repeat.
Best sounding motor IMHO, best bang for the buck. Turbo'd ones make enough power to get you in loads of trouble, NA ones make enough power to have fun on the street. Why would you want more? M30 swap would be the only thing I would put in an e30, and that's for the torque. Nothing else.
My m20 will be done and in in a month. I worked with PB on my pistons and my bottom end. Rods are s50 rods, crank is an eta. My top is made by Myster-e with all the bells and whistles, my headers are Bav-auto, my cat back is Eisanmann. I run a SS 4 knob with a 3.5" intake and a Mark D chip. The motor won't make a ton of power, but it will be fun enough for an older guy like me. I built it, 80% of my performance parts weer purchased from reputable members on THIS forum and no where else. I will have @ 3.5k into it when all is said and done, and that will be a good starting point from my original motor which has lasted 220K without any problems what so ever.
My opinion is this. With a motor that lasts that long, why wouldn't you just build another and "slightly" massage it?

[VinniE30]

His point is you dont need a weak m50 to have a fun car.

Not really. That sentence doesn't even make sense.
First his point was basically that there's no point to doing any m5x/s5x swap short of euro engine or s54 because the don't make enough power.
Then he said that the m20 is a great engine. (I agree the m20 is a good engine but it's contradictory when you're seemingly putting so much emphasis on power)

it is pointless to swap when there is a great engine original to the E30 already installed.

its called a M20. even in m20b20 form its quite nice and takes well to turbocharging.

if bothering to change; put in a real motor. or a American V8!

The thing you're not considering is that people don't do engine swaps for the sole purpose of power. If it was all about power and bang for the buck we wouldn't do anything else besides turbo m20s since they are proven to make more power on boost then any of these M-engines make stock.
But of corse people don't do engine swaps just for the power. A lot of it is to do something different and unique, isin't that a huge part of modifying cars in general? A lot of it is having something more efficient and newer and smoother running. Even just cool factor and the way it looks in the engine bay. Sometimes it's to have a better engine for the track. Lots of reasons, one of which may be power.
An m50 is superior to the m20 in almost every way. To argue that it's a pointless swap is the same as arguing that any swap is pointless. It's all about if it's worth the money and time to the person. A lot of people do M50 swaps for less than $1k. That's pretty cheap for the increase in performance, not to mention all the other advantages.
For me personally i'm not comfortable with doing an s54 swap and don't like any V8's. I'm more than content with the raw power that my M30 is making and now I want an e30 that has a 24v engine. Not everyone needs nor wants >300HP. Anything over 200hp is a big difference from a stock m20 and well worth it to me and many other people clearly. I think every engine swap is cool in it's own way, same with all the stock engines configurations.

The thing with you is that you have this attitude where you need to showboat that you have powerful cars with "real" M engines and it makes you look like you're competing in a dick measuring contest.

[JA1991]

I'm just starting to collect parts for my build, but i plan on turboing my m20. I like the sound of 400hp out of a turbo m20 =)

[Roysneon]

I agree with the 4 or so previous posts. Do what you want if it's what you need. I just like DOHC engines. If I had an M42 on hand I'd have put that in my car when I needed a motor. I think that built up M20's are really cool and someday I'd love to do one, but it likely wouldn't be going into a car I planned to keep. I'm happy every time I look at my M50 and every time I drive it. I wouldn't mind more power of course, but I have no need for more right now. The thing that a lot of people need to remember is that we're not all building a race car. Sometimes people just want a different motor because they just do.

I'm rambling now but I'll echo the sentiment that you should build whatever suits your needs, whether it's a tangible, measurable figure or just a feeling about a certain engine or type of engine.

[nando]

Not really. That sentence doesn't even make sense.
First his point was basically that there's no point to doing any m5x/s5x swap short of euro engine or s54 because the don't make enough power.
Then he said that the m20 is a great engine. (I agree the m20 is a good engine but it's contradictory when you're seemingly putting so much emphasis on power)

I think it was more that if you wanted a powerful, high-RPM n/a engine than an M5x or S5x wasn't going to do it. there's nothing wrong with either motors. just like there's nothing wrong with building a powerful (and expensive) N/A M20, if that's what you want.

also, it's still 100% nonsense that you can't rev a stroker motor, when every high-reving BMW motor has a longer stroke than both M20s and M50s. ;)

[e30shmobberr]

i went s50 so i can pass smog with a engine swap. i did not want to worry about a turbo or anything like that at the time.

[e30trooper]

m20's sound far better than any 24v.




id be happy with this N/A m20 :d

[broach328]

Im pretty sure most s52 swaps cost at least 6k. S54 or s38 is more like 10 or 12. Im not sure what your point is comparing it to a scion that everyone knows isn't fast.

His point is you dont need a weak m50 to have a fun car.

really just depends on how far you go with it what trans how much maintenance etc but s54s are like 6k with trans for the motor alone so yeah prob more like 10 for those swapped in which for most people is too much doh for an e30 non m

Not really. That sentence doesn't even make sense.
First his point was basically that there's no point to doing any m5x/s5x swap short of euro engine or s54 because the don't make enough power.
Then he said that the m20 is a great engine. (I agree the m20 is a good engine but it's contradictory when you're seemingly putting so much emphasis on power)




The thing you're not considering is that people don't do engine swaps for the sole purpose of power. If it was all about power and bang for the buck we wouldn't do anything else besides turbo m20s since they are proven to make more power on boost then any of these M-engines make stock.
But of corse people don't do engine swaps just for the power. A lot of it is to do something different and unique, isin't that a huge part of modifying cars in general? A lot of it is having something more efficient and newer and smoother running. Even just cool factor and the way it looks in the engine bay. Sometimes it's to have a better engine for the track. Lots of reasons, one of which may be power.
An m50 is superior to the m20 in almost every way. To argue that it's a pointless swap is the same as arguing that any swap is pointless. It's all about if it's worth the money and time to the person. A lot of people do M50 swaps for less than $1k. That's pretty cheap for the increase in performance, not to mention all the other advantages.
For me personally i'm not comfortable with doing an s54 swap and don't like any V8's. I'm more than content with the raw power that my M30 is making and now I want an e30 that has a 24v engine. Not everyone needs nor wants >300HP. Anything over 200hp is a big difference from a stock m20 and well worth it to me and many other people clearly. I think every engine swap is cool in it's own way, same with all the stock engines configurations.

The thing with you is that you have this attitude where you need to showboat that you have powerful cars with "real" M engines and it makes you look like you're competing in a dick measuring contest.

Bingo ^^

[george graves]

Why do I think this thread should be limited to people that haven actually done a swap? Call me crazy...

[delatlanta1281]

I've done and been in many swaps. I like a stroked m20 best. After that, an m30. The thought of some huge supercharged m5x doesn't do it for me. Been in NA ones and FI ones. I still don't see the point when the m20 makes plenty of power to have a good time.

[nando]

Why do I think this thread should be limited to people that haven actually done a swap? Call me crazy...

have or haven't?

[VinniE30]

also, it's still 100% nonsense that you can't rev a stroker motor, when every high-reving BMW motor has a longer stroke than both M20s and M50s. ;)

I agree. And I never said you can't. I just said it wasn't ideal. Longer stroke will have increased stress on the crank and higher piston speeds. It's less "rev happy" aka it revs slower. And everything else I said about it before that you didn't respond to.

BMW made the those M engines have more stroke than bore because they couldn't increase the bore anymore with that size block and its bore spacing. If you want to use BMW M engines as examples then look at the S65 which has an even higher redline than those engines - it has a much larger stroke than bore. Because it's a V8 so the block has plenty of room for more bore. With an inline 6 the space between cylinders is more of an issue.

Next time give some actual reasoning instead of just an example because of course there's examples of both.