"Performance Alignment"

[88SuperETABD]

I searched, and only found some good write ups on performance alignments for the e36 chasis, I know factory alignment specs are designed for safety, and was wondering if any suspension guys with lots of experience with e30's geometries or really good at math, what would be an "optimum alignment setup"

Assuming you have camber/toe adjustment all around, (camber plates and weld in rear adjusters).

Currently I'm at -1.7° camber/ 0 toe up front, and -3.7° camber in back/ forget toe.

My rear is fixed at the moment, i have a spare rear subframe im going to do the adjusters and new bushings on, so when I do that, I wanna set my car up for a "performance oriented/tirewear alignment"

So, from my understanding, Toe is what causes excessive tire wear, not camber, so I'm assuming it should be 0 toe front and back to eliminate as much tire wear as possible, then the question is camber...

the e36 m3 supposedly needs more camber in the front than in rear, is e30 the same way? It specifically says 318ti's are not the same way because they have e30 rear suspension..so im guessing the answer to my question is no.

So should rear or front have more camber? or is a square set up good?

I was planning to go with a 2° camber/0 toe up front, with my m3 offset caster bushings.

then max out the camber adjusters hopefully to get to around 2.5° in the rear, or as far as they'll take me, gonna play with it.

I'm guessing it needs more camber in back because thats how it is now, and the rear seems to roll over and lock in, i dunno if thats because my subframe bushings are shot.

[88SuperETABD]

might i make clear this is for a street setup.

[AndrewBird]

First off, you needed to do some reading on suspension adjustment. You clearly have no idea what anything does.

Second, the stock setting is not a "safety" setup. It is the optimum settings for the car at stock ride height and stock tire/wheel sizes.

You are not going to want to run 0 toe as this will make the car very twitchy. For street, go with stock camber specs. Only reason to increase camber is to offset tire roll due to high speed cornering, which you won't see on the street unless you are driving like an idiot.

[FLG]

Unless your tracking the car as Andrew said, there is no need to increase camber. Run correct specs for a street car, having a race setup on a street car is not going to help, youll be getting less grip overall and more tire wear.

[Wh33lhop]

I've seen this guy autocross, he is not just driving on the street.

Don't do zero toe if you are going to drive on the street a lot. Toe changes on suspension compression and changing from toe in to toe out will make the car seem unatable. Go for a little toe in, like just on the mild side of factory spec.

The rear does gain camber faster than the front, and the general rule of thumb that I have seen is try and go about half a degree more camber up front than rear.

[ak-]

Corner balanced maybe ?

[F34R]

I've seen this guy autocross, he is not just driving on the street.

Don't do zero toe if you are going to drive on the street a lot. Toe changes on suspension compression and changing from toe in to toe out will make the car seem unatable. Go for a little toe in, like just on the mild side of factory spec.

The rear does gain camber faster than the front, and the general rule of thumb that I have seen is try and go about half a degree more camber up front than rear.

This^

I need to find my setup print sheet.

I had the shop reduce my camber as much as the weld in kit would allow in the rear. I still have a good amount of camber even with the correction at the highest setting. I went 1.5 difference in the front.

I will get the sheet and give you my height setup to give a better idea on how low I am to how much correction I had to do. I am using e28 GC race camber plates in the front.

[nrubenstein]

Zero toe is OK up front, although it negatively impacts steering feel.

Zero toe is bad in the back because it results in toe out under loaded conditions, leading to instability. For autocrossing, you can end up running up to half an inch of toe in in the rear. This is certainly extreme (and probably unnecessary on a wimpy M20), but it helps get the power down on corner exit. Of course, it also kills tires and makes the car feel less than perfect elsewhere.

For performance, you are clearly much to low in the back - -3.7 is not really optimal.

[jlevie]

A performance alignment and tire life are mutually exclusive. If this is purely a street car, align both ends to factory settings. Those numbers are a hood compromise between performance and tire wear.

An alignment purely for performance depends on the tires used, how stiff their sidewalls are, what spring rates are used, and what the front to rear weight balance is. If the front is no more than 2% heavier than the rear, the spring rates are at or above H&R Race, and you are running a race tire like a Toyo Ra1 or RR, 3.5deg camber and zero to 1/16" toe out in the front and 3deg and 1/16-3/32" toe in in the rear would be a good starting point.

[88SuperETABD]

I'm just looking for a general alignment spec for a slammed car i guess...just like it was said above, the recommended set up is for stock height...and impossible for me since im on GC coil kit. I like being low. That's a whole different story, I know its hurting me, but it's the way i want my car. I'm just trying to compensate for this...being my car is a double duty, it will see the track, and since its my daily driver...i dont wanna get alignments every time I go to an auto X or track...

So I guess im looking at a standard set up for a low e30.

I'll give some more specs on my car i guess...

GC Full kit/ shortened struts/camber plates/m3 cabs/m3 adj sway bars/ 205/50r16 s.drives.

FRONT
772 734 <------Corner weights in Lbs. (unbalanced obviously, but checked on the scales at work)
662 642
Back
Ground to m20 oil pan: 2.5"
Ground to Fender measurement: Front : 23 1/8" Rear: 22"

But someone said it should be 1° more negative up front than in back??

so you're saying to do something like Font 3° and 2°*in back? dunno if adjuster will get that far. So 1/8" toe in in rear? 0 toe is okay up front, but whats optimal?

[ncbrock]

Meh I dont see why people are advising against 0 toe on the street in the front. I dont see why its an issue when you want a "performance" alignment. 0 toe or a little toe out increases turn in response. On all my cars (that I also track) Ive had it setup with 0 or a 1\16th toe out, and while its twitchy on the highway its no problem if your not a lazy driver. You wont gain any more tire wear either. More camber in the front than rear yes, but sometimes without correction in the rear that cant happen.

[88SuperETABD]

I was told by Mark @ GC to run my camber plates maxed out negative on the auto x. which is cool, and when i did that. it helped out..but i dunno what my camber was at....anyone know what the full range is on GC camber plates? I'm maxed out positive on the plates at -1.7°, aren't they 2°*plates? so maxed out negative i'd be -3.7°? this worked find for me at auto x cuz i have no rear adjustment, and before i drove to auto x. i slammed my camber plates Negative, when i got home...i slammed em back positive, alignment seems to be good and same as before.

[TobyB]

zero toe up front leads to less stability in crosswinds, ruts, and dartiness under brakes.

It also turns in a bit more crisply.

t