Swap choices, S54, Euro S50, or something else?

[Asbradley21]

i may be confusing my information with the swap preparation i'm doing (chevy LS), but it'd be worth it to change out the stock e30 steering column anyway for additional airbox clearance, as well as improved feel by eliminating the rubber flex disc. check out this thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=273427. vorschlag also makes a spendy collapsable steering column, and some people (like JGood and bmwmech1) on this site have pieced together some nice looking columns with Flaming River u-joints. also.. don't forget about swapping the steering rack! Z3, E36 (all but the 95 M3 variable ratio), or E30 M3...


as for the brakes, personally, I would go with tilton or wilwood pedals and a twin master setup for front and rear. with the adjustable pedal ratio and appropriate master cylinder sizing (probably around 20mm each), the pedal effort shouldn't be too much more than a firm stock/street setup.


no knocking massive's products, he makes great stuff. the race brake kit would be epic. as for the booster, the above solution is just an opinion based on other people's opinions/internet hearsay and research.


i too have read that the non-OD ZF 5 speed is preferred in racing. paired with a 3.23 LSD (from a Z3M) or maybe 3.46 if you can find one, it would probably be a good match with the S54. it's a great solution too because like i mentioned before, you can use the late-model 325 trans crossmember. note, the driveshafts that will work with the 24v motor paired with the ZF are one of the following: E30 M3, 87-88 325e, or e36 m3/328is 4-bolt rear. i happen to have the middle one laying about... and it's for sale. ;)


one last thing... make a build thread!

Thanks a lot for the good info, especially driveshafts and diffs. I'm still unsure about brakes. A dual master set up would be ideal for sure. And I'll be sure to make a build thread over the coming months. What I really need to find is a diff. 4.10 will be a bit ridiculous with all that power. Steering rack is mostly taken care of. I have a spare z3 rack that I was going to use, but 240zs30's s54 will also come with his e46 m3 rack, are those worth using? or should I stick with the z3 rack?

Nothing.


This is certainly a valid point. Your car will turn quicker laptimes on most tracks with an S54. The question is, will it be more fun? I've been to a couple tracks you can pick up a ton of speed on the straights, which means you'll have to scrub off 30-40 mph more than an M42. Those last 10 mph make a difference in driver confidence, at least to me.

I used to have an S50US, and it does not even compare to an S54. The car still pulls hard at 135-140 (true speed, not indicated) whereas an S50US starts running out of puff.

I didn't get out to the track much this season but next year I'll be out a lot more hopefully. My opinion might change as I get used to the power, but right now, I certainly don't need any more.

Yeah, it really does make "sense" to buy an e36 m3 as they ARE everywhere. BUT, I'm not necessarily out to make sense, I'm out to have as much fun as possible, and an s54'd e30 really sounds like fun to me.

I just don't think that 300hp is "insane" for an E30. it's not like an old Nissan Z with a 1200hp twin turbo or something. Yeah, it'll be pretty damn fast, but not uncontrolable. Plus being N/A you don't have to worry about boost suddenly kicking in mid corner. lastly, the S54 isn't exactly a torque monster compared to the S52B32.

Another reason I don't like boost. Well, I do like boost, but it has a way of being a bit unpredictable sometimes, which is no good for track use, at least for me.

This is all starting to be really fun.

[FredK]

Torque monster? I think the S52 definitely has a lot of torque, but it's more noticeable since there is a broad peak. The S54 has more torque everywhere on the curve.

300hp is not "insane", but you can get going pretty quickly. The power is very predictable and the car is easy to throttle steer.

[nando]

I just don't think that 300hp is "insane" for an E30. it's not like an old Nissan Z with a 1200hp twin turbo or something. Yeah, it'll be pretty damn fast, but not uncontrolable. Plus being N/A you don't have to worry about boost suddenly kicking in mid corner. lastly, the S54 isn't exactly a torque monster compared to the S52B32.

[FredK]

What is has to be done with the steering column?

Nothing.

If its for the track than doesn't it make more since to just by a E36 M3, with a chasis that was properly engineered for that horsepower? That would be the least expensive approach I would think. There are very few people that can properly handle a 300hp E30 on a track and I imagine those that have the skill to do so would probably prefer not to. You may be able to drive faster with less horsepower and a chasis designed to handle it.

This is certainly a valid point. Your car will turn quicker laptimes on most tracks with an S54. The question is, will it be more fun? I've been to a couple tracks you can pick up a ton of speed on the straights, which means you'll have to scrub off 30-40 mph more than an M42. Those last 10 mph make a difference in driver confidence, at least to me.

I used to have an S50US, and it does not even compare to an S54. The car still pulls hard at 135-140 (true speed, not indicated) whereas an S50US starts running out of puff.

I didn't get out to the track much this season but next year I'll be out a lot more hopefully. My opinion might change as I get used to the power, but right now, I certainly don't need any more.

[evandael]

What is has to be done with the steering column? I was going to go with the massive brake booster delete and probably upgrade from my massive street kit to the race kit a bit later, unsure about that though.

i may be confusing my information with the swap preparation i'm doing (chevy LS), but it'd be worth it to change out the stock e30 steering column anyway for additional airbox clearance, as well as improved feel by eliminating the rubber flex disc. check out this thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=273427. vorschlag also makes a spendy collapsable steering column, and some people (like JGood and bmwmech1) on this site have pieced together some nice looking columns with Flaming River u-joints. also.. don't forget about swapping the steering rack! Z3, E36 (all but the 95 M3 variable ratio), or E30 M3...


as for the brakes, personally, I would go with tilton or wilwood pedals and a twin master setup for front and rear. with the adjustable pedal ratio and appropriate master cylinder sizing (probably around 20mm each), the pedal effort shouldn't be too much more than a firm stock/street setup.


no knocking massive's products, he makes great stuff. the race brake kit would be epic. as for the booster, the above solution is just an opinion based on other people's opinions/internet hearsay and research.


i too have read that the non-OD ZF 5 speed is preferred in racing. paired with a 3.23 LSD (from a Z3M) or maybe 3.46 if you can find one, it would probably be a good match with the S54. it's a great solution too because like i mentioned before, you can use the late-model 325 trans crossmember. note, the driveshafts that will work with the 24v motor paired with the ZF are one of the following: E30 M3, 87-88 325e, or e36 m3/328is 4-bolt rear. i happen to have the middle one laying about... and it's for sale. ;)


one last thing... make a build thread!

[Hooffenstein HD]

The only reason I can think of that a BMW V8 wouldn't be a great track engine, is if you want to compete in a class that requires same number of cylinders/engine configuration as standard. Otherwise, that's what I'd be doing if money was no concern.

[CrusherCurtis]

Damn s54 with everything needed to swap for just $4900 obo. Wow that's cheap. I'll probably swap my vert in a couple years when it becomes more common.
S54 all the way. If didn't start my xk project I'd buy it. I nearly paid that much for my wheels alone. Silly me.

[obes]

i'm definitely not buying an e36. Fake m motor.

There's no reason a properly sorted e30 cannot handle 300hp.

Also, just no on v8's. I don't like them in e30s for a variety of reasons.

lol

[Asbradley21]

If its for the track than doesn't it make more since to just by a E36 M3, with a chasis that was properly engineered for that horsepower? That would be the least expensive approach I would think. There are very few people that can properly handle a 300hp E30 on a track and I imagine those that have the skill to do so would probably prefer not to. You may be able to drive faster with less horsepower and a chasis designed to handle it.

I'm definitely not buying an e36. Fake M motor.

There's no reason a properly sorted e30 cannot handle 300hp.

Also, just no on V8's. I don't like them in e30s for a variety of reasons.

[King Mufasa]

Go V8 for sound, great torque, light weight, less stress on the engine life as its a v8 and its great on track. same reason bmw made v12 on the 7series. or buy this I ran into earlier and turbo it http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/pts/3456714559.html

[nando]

It includes preprogrammed stand alone engine management I believe, just to give you a ballpark idea.

There are also people who can flash the stock DME for a more affordable option.

There is absolutely no reason to do a standalone conversion for S54 these days. Unless you have a huge budget it will almost certianly be worse than the stock DME. Prices on S54 flashes are going to start dropping too.

EWS is a non issue. either remove it with the flash or just install it. without a VIN# to read off your dash it will basically be unstealable.

[acolella76]

Also, let's not forget the fact that in the E46 M3 GTR, BMW replaced the S54 with a V8 based (albeit very loosely) off of the M60 platform.

[herbivor]

This car will primarily be my track toy as I daily drive my e39. It will need to be able to withstand track weekends during the scorching AL heat.

Anything else I'm missing?

If its for the track than doesn't it make more since to just by a E36 M3, with a chasis that was properly engineered for that horsepower? That would be the least expensive approach I would think. There are very few people that can properly handle a 300hp E30 on a track and I imagine those that have the skill to do so would probably prefer not to. You may be able to drive faster with less horsepower and a chasis designed to handle it.

[mulletman]

How does the S62 compare to an M60 with regards to weight/dimensions/swap difficulty? It's the same block, no?


Edited because I'm a dumbass, haha.

[JGood]

V8s aren't just for drag racing--in fact the M6x will give better weight distribution than an S54, and an M62 will basically give the same power output (~270-280whp and more torque). That said, the S54's factory oil cooler setup (vs. the M6x's lack thereof) is more condusive to track driving in high temp environments, and the S54's character is more exciting.

I was going to make the same comment, I'm not sure how the m6x wouldn't make a good track car engine... but the OP seems pretty adamant about not using a v8 and this is his thread haha.

BruceBe ditched his s52 for an m60 in his e30 race car, and seemed very happy with the upgrade. Also, the fact that the block has an input and output for the external oil filter means you can easily add in an oil cooler. I actually lost about 50lbs going from an m50 to an m60, and that weight was in the front of the engine bay.