FIA approval....Do I need it?

[IronFreak]

I'm going to be putting a fuel cell in my car but it's not going to be a GT car by any means. I can understand the safety benefits of the the ATL and FuelSafe cells but I'm not sure I'd ever been in an event that would require that.

Use of my car:

Auto X, HPDE, Drifting events 90%

Vette slayer 10%

So do you think I would be safe with the RCI cells that have the seamless poly bladder and steel can that aren't FIA approved.



Or an ATL or fuel safe that is basically the same with FIA approval (with the exception that its several hundred dollars more.....)



Thoughts?


(Side note, I'm assuming this is the right section for this post, please feel free to move if I am wrong)

[jlevie]

If the car won't be required to meet the rules of a racing body, you can use any type of cell you like. Though from a safety standpoint the installation needs to be as though the car will have to pass race inspection. That means sealing the rear cabin bulkhead, using only A/N lines and reinforcing the rear of the car.

Usually a fuel cell is mounted in the spare tire well in the trunk. The disadvantage of that is that there is an increase in polar moment and a larger change in front to rear weight balance as fuel is consumed. The location of the stock tank is about as good as it can get. The weight is low and forward of the rear axle, so the polar moment is less and there is less weight balance change. And if the car has a cage, the fuel tank is inside of the protected zone.

[IronFreak]

Thanks I appreciate the feedback. It will be mounted safely and securely. The chassis has already be reinforced and I will have the proper carriage and restraint straps for it as well. I might look into possibly extending some cage bits rearward and tie down into the back of the chassis to offer additional protection. The RCI cell has a high strength polyethylene bladder inside and steel can, extremely similar to the ATL cells. It just lacks the FIA rating. I think I may end up going this route.

Thanks again.

[10Toes]

What is wrong with the stock tank?

[IronFreak]

I don't have one haha.

[10Toes]

I don't have one haha.

http://car-part.com/

[kts]

If you'll be doing SCCA autocross events the fuel cell will need to be FIA approved. :(

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2013%20Solo%20Rules.pdf

The use of a fuel cell which complies with GCR requirements is permitted,

GCR: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...%20January.pdf on page 100 it mentions that the cell needs to be FIA approved.

It also looks like they will want a fire extinguisher in the car.

On the local level, it would probably depend on how strict your safety inspection folks are on if they would let a non-FIA certified tank in or not, or if they even bother to look at it that closely.

Not sure about non-SCCA events and their rules.

The 24 Hours of Lemons folks sell FIA certified tanks here: http://store.24hoursoflemons.com/cat...ag=safety.fuel

I'm not sure if they are still cheaper than other options out there but when I bought my race suit from them a few years ago they were definitely cheaper than other options at the time.

[jlevie]

There are a few Spec E30 racers that thought a fuel cell would be a good idea. Those that I've talked to have stated that it really turned out not to be a good idea because of the increased polar moment and the weight balance change.

The only way I'd put a fuel cell into an E30 is if the class rules required it. And if you'd seen the back end of my first Spec E30 after it hit the wall (twice) at Road Atlanta you'd not even consider having a fuel cell anywhere aft the rear subframe. The right rear corner of the car wound up pretty much under the rear window.

If you don't have a tank, you should be able to get a good one for less than $100 from a salvage yard. Or a new one for about $200.

[IronFreak]

So.......I can run a stock, not built to FIA 3.5 specs under my car....but it has to be an FIA 3.5 or higher rating on the cell.....which only 2 companies in the states make. Cough monopoly cough....

I get the polar momentum shift though, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I guess I'll be grabbing a tank from the yard. I know where there is an 88 in pretty decent shape, hopefully the tank is the same.....

[kts]

So.......I can run a stock, not built to FIA 3.5 specs under my car....but it has to be an FIA 3.5 or higher rating on the cell.....which only 2 companies in the states make. Cough monopoly cough....

I get the polar momentum shift though, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I guess I'll be grabbing a tank from the yard. I know where there is an 88 in pretty decent shape, hopefully the tank is the same.....

Think of it this way, the stock tank and the FIA rated tanks have been tested by the government and or a regulating body. The non certified tanks have not. While they are most likely built just as well as the FIA certified tanks there is no way to easily tell that so safety focused organizations like SCCA are overly cautious with what they will allow.

It looks like a lot of the Spec E30 folks get their tanks from Rock Auto for $220ish. http://spece30.com/forum/43-fuel-sys...or-let-it-ride

If it was me I'd buy the new one and not have to worry about buying a used one that may or may not have rust/gunk in it.

[nrubenstein]

So.......I can run a stock, not built to FIA 3.5 specs under my car....but it has to be an FIA 3.5 or higher rating on the cell.....which only 2 companies in the states make. Cough monopoly cough....

I get the polar momentum shift though, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I guess I'll be grabbing a tank from the yard. I know where there is an 88 in pretty decent shape, hopefully the tank is the same.....

The stock tank is highly unlikely to get punctured in a crash. That area is AMAZINGLY well protected. A fuel cell is part of the crumple zone in back. I would go well out of my way to use the stock tank over a fuel cell.

[TobyB]

I run the stock tank, for all the reasons listed above.

I think the only thing better would be a stock tank with a bladder and foam.

t

[IronFreak]

I am in the process of rounding all the stock stuff back up. Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it. Wish I had given it a little more thought.

[TimKninja]

just to burst your bubble, i wouldnt source a gas tank from a yard. Guess how they get the gas out ?

New ones are like $200.

[IronFreak]

Yeah I have been looking at RockAuto, but have been talking with Levent at Guten about one he has. The only thing I would get from the yard with be the sending unit and fuel pump bracket.