S14...

[madjurgen]

Why is it all I ever hear about s14s is people spinning rod bearings and constant rebuilding of the engine? Are they really that unreliable or has the proper preventive maintenence not been performed?

Let me be a bit more specific. The idea of an M2 is very intriguing to me as a track car, 2000lbs stripped/250hp 2.5L S14, you do the math. But the reliability of the s14 scares me, especially a screaming 2.5L track monster. I know about the costs of building one, so i dont need a lecture on that. But if I have to teardown and rebuild it after every trackday, I'll pass. With only 1 ton to worry about, it wouldnt have to be a balls out motor. Even a stock motor in a full-interior car gives a 12lb/hp ratio.

So basically, can a moderately high performance s14 be reliable on the track?

[Skafrog]

you opened a can of worms on this one, a view that everyone differs on.
You need to talk to people who have actually tracked their motors and have experience with both types of motors. All of this means 1 thing: dont ask this question here.
You wont have to do a rebuild every track day. However, when built up, they are a ticking time bomb; your level of preperation will depend on how long your useful service life is.
Once you start modding any motor (seriously modding), you shorten the life span. Even wonderfully prepared S14 motors have the potential to let go after a season and a half.

[UNHCLL]

People have run these motors without baffles. A big no-no in S14 world.
They can be built to be reliable.... for example... VSR has built a bunch of S14 track motors for various racers. We've NEVER had one blow up/break. And those racers collected the following in 2005 in SCCA & BMW CCA CR:
10 first place finishes
24 podium finishes
5 lap records


S14's need oil pan baffles.
They need frequent oil changes
They need attentive owners who dont rev the piss out of them on a cold engine
They need preventative maitenance... not just reactionary maitenance.


Sorry, a bit of that post was a bit to much of a "sales" pitch. Simple answer is yes, S14's can be very reliable.

[UNHCLL]

Once you start modding motors (seriously modding), you shorten the life span.

Agree somewhat... not entirely.

Even wonderfully prepared S14 motors have the potential to let go after a season and a half.

Sorry Rob, going to have to disagree here. ;)

Cheers buddy!

[Skafrog]

what classes were these s14's prepared for?
The level of preparedness has 100% everything to do with the reliabilty. There arent many S14 DM motors that are competitive that last more than two seasons. (Rigoli, Checca, Daniels, Maxon)
Hell, even if they do last, they are way down on power. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.

Sorry Rob, going to have to disagree here.

I said potential. To deny that there is a risk when modding an s14 is ignorant. Also, just to clear on this, the m50 is susceptible as well.

[UNHCLL]

everything from stock to mod classes. I cant recall offhand.... sorry.

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely on the point that a built up motor has a shorter lifespan than a stock motor. I'm disagreeing on the timeframe of their useable life.

But, you said it best off the bat... there are a host of opinions on this topic. We dont have to debate which of us is right/wrong/more correct.


EDIT: I also think the builder has a lot to do with it. We've had customers go to other "reputable" builders because it was going to save them some money on the build. Both of the people who did that, had the motor explode on the 1st or 2nd track day out. One was a racer, one was a driving school. How do you say Oooops?!


Cheers,
CL

[Skafrog]

I would much rather argue with you over beer at the track anyways ;)

[UNHCLL]

I would much rather argue with you over beer at the track anyways ;)

Done!
We'll set something up in the "near" future.

[Court M3]

s14 with proper preventative maintenance can be a reliable engine. Don't know about for the track though

[madjurgen]

What kind of power are the DM s14s putting down? Im not talking about a balls-out performance shop-built engine. Im talking about perhaps a "mild" 2.5L.

[hugh jass]

maybe i just don't get it, but i would much rather have a stock or mildly modded s52 than a buzzy built s14 any day of the week. same horsepower for 1/3 the cost.
go ahead and say it...you know you want to....

[Skafrog]

What kind of power are the DM s14s putting down? Im not talking about a balls-out performance shop-built engine. Im talking about perhaps a "mild" 2.5L.

"mild" DM's are pushing 250 or so at the crank.
Some of the front-running DM S14's are making well over 300.

[madjurgen]

maybe i just don't get it, but i would much rather have a stock or mildly modded s52 than a buzzy built s14 any day of the week. same horsepower for 1/3 the cost.
go ahead and say it...you know you want to....

s14 into a 02 is pretty straightforward from what i gather, plus more importantly it doesnt mess with the balance of the car.

[AdamF 88iS]

S14s are perfectly reliable if you know how to take proper care of them; more reliable than tracked M or S50s that I have seen and worked on.

Problem is that most people don't know how to take proper care of them and they get a bad rep because of it.

My car is daily driven and has seen more track days than you can count on your fingers and toes. It has 136k miles on the original motor; it runs flawlessly and has never let me down.

[bmw332i]

Ron Checca has a monster s14. It makes around 350 crank hp. I had Ron as my DE instructor at a GVC BMWCCA event once, and his car was there. I took some pics of it. He says that he rebuilds it about once a season. As far as reliability, he says it's pretty good. The thing is insanely fast. I can't imagine what one of his engines would be like in a race-prepped 2002.

Pics!!: