Need Opinions On the Value of this awesome E30...

[Ether-D]

Good bye. You won't make it here. But thanks for sharing.

Edit: Or you'll learn that you can't bitch your way out of not reading the "read this before posting" sticky.

[E92E30Nut]

Original post:
I am having a hard time finding any other E30 for sale to compare this car to.
This is a TC KLINE built 325is specifically prepared for IMSA/Firehawk series when the car was new. Barely used/raced, Never tagged, never seen rain, rust free and recently refreshed to better than original condition. Mostly original other than new fuel cell, built motor, cam, fresh cage, tranny w/short throw shifter, 3 piece wheels/slicks and much more. All work was done by the best in the business (engine, cage, tuning, suspension) with NO EXPENSE SPARED mainly on the motor internals and suspension. This car has a short but very sweet SCCA log book having won nearly every race it's entered recently although it has only been ran very few times. Not exactly sure on mileage but it is hard to believe its over 1K miles...

NEVER WRECKED, all original bodywork under the vinyl work. This thing starts every single time with one push of starter button and runs so strong and lopes like a cammed LS motor. It has been meticulously maintained and operates at the highest level of any classic racecar I've personally driven. It Screams!

Since I have nothing to compare it to as far as being the only originally race prepped 325is FROM THE FACTORY that I can seem to find I would greatly appreciate some of your highly knowledgable opinions and experience in this specific model of BMW.


If you look at that and respond the way you did than you should look in the mirror and understand that you are currently a TOOL. I asked for OPINIONS ON VALUE. I didn't ask for every person here to question the integrity of this car. The car is exactly what I said it is. Nothing more and nothing less.

Comical that grown men conduct theirselves this way when hiding behind monitors...what a joke honestly

[Fooshe]

Ok easy turbo...you need to dial it down a notch or 7. You have no idea who is on this forum and who some of these people are. Yes, they are enthusiasts and (be definition) are going to usually be more of the extremist’s the most. As for me, I was probably racing before you were born.

You post something with literally no real details and looks like a simple weekend racer yet proclaim it to be “the only originally race prepped 325is FROM THE FACTORY” you can find and you expect your audience to do cartwheel and start drooling at the car?...Seriously?

You have made contradictory statements that don’t make sense. You said “This is a TC KLINE built 325is specifically prepared for IMSA/Firehawk series when the car was new.” Then later you state “being the only originally race prepped 325is FROM THE FACTORY.” Ok, which is it? From TC Klien or the Factory? What baffles me is why you don’t call TC himself…He’s not that hard to reach and a pretty nice guy. In fact, he was seated at my table for dinner last year in Monterey, CA. I served as one of the Chief Instructors for O’fest and was a guest at the event. Here, call TC at 805-892-2001. If this car was worked on by him, he’ll tell you what you want to know.

Ok, you state you have the SCCA log book. Post the pictures of the book so we can see who signed off on the car and who claimed to be the owner. That would be a good start.
You also made statements that the car was “Barely used/raced, Never tagged, never seen rain, rust free and recently refreshed to better than original condition…NEVER WRECKED.” Ok, how can you say that? What proof do you have? If this is a “factory” car and had proper backing for the Firehawk series, there would be set up notes, track pages and engineering docs for adjustments made to the car. Have you checked with Carl McGinn as to who may have been the crew chief? How about test and tune days? How many hours are on the engine? Professional cars have either flow meters or hours meters and they sure as hell have chassis, suspension and engine notes so the team can track the what has been done and not waste time doing it over and over again.

What I find really interesting is that there is a J. Pauley Motorsports out of Fort Smith, AR…the same State you are from. They did run in IMSA with a Supra. That same team ran in a 2004 race at Daytona with that same car. Interestingly enough, TC Kline Racing was also in that race. A fellow racer, and friend (Craig Staton), finished in the Daytona 250 with them. I called Craig and he does not remember the team. Here is a picture of the car: http://www.motorsport.com/general/ph...pawley-brian-3. Interestingly the logo on the car also matches the one on the E30.

What I suspect is that you have a car that ended up racing in Group 10 with SVRA (Sportscar Vintage Racing Association). It is the mid-west’s version of VARA (Vintage Auto Racing Association) which is mostly a west coast series. If that is the case, it is worth no more than a Spec E30. Oh, and I can tell you with 100% accuracy, I can point to a hand full of Spec E30’s that would shame that car.

I will say this much, I love your enthusiasm about the car, but so far it really is just that. As a fellow enthusiast, I can appreciate your passion for what you think the car might be, but I think you just came out of the gates too fast and too hard with this one. But when you come out as make statements like “For those REAL HARDCORE E30 enthusiast out there, not these ignorant rude posers…” without really knowing who the people are, you are simply making the hill you want to climb impossible. I suggest you read your 1st posting as if it was someone else’s. Then really consider what you left out.

And no, you don’t need an E30 PHD, you simply just need to state facts you have and ask for help. You would be amazed at what people on this forum will do to help you if simply provide facts you know to be true and then list what you are trying to find out. Also, do some simple homework first…it will go a long way in helping others help you. But most of all, be honest about things. The forum guys are pretty sharp and they can sniff out the BS in a heartbeat.

As for my “colossal requirements” you speak of, I think you have seen that others feel the same. I will tell you this much, the fact that you think my assessment of that car makes me have “colossal requirements” tells me that you really have not been around a real GT race team’s or their pits. Hell, even a host of high ranking amateur teams I know of and have raced with have cleaner cars. What I am trying to share is that your version of clean might be someone else’s embarrassment.

Anyway, the simple truth of the matter is that you are excited about the car and that fires me up. I love motorsports and people who are excited about it are ok with me. Just realize it’s ok not to know something. As my father used to say, “It’s a dumb MF’r that doesn’t learn something new every day.”

Now, if you can give people more info and items to go on, maybe we can (as a group) track down the details on the car so you know exactly what you are looking at and can speak about it with confidence and accuracy. Otherwise, replying with spiteful words and calling people you don't know harsh names only makes you the A-hole and further justifies their reaction. You asked for a value and I gave you an opinion based on what I see and over 15 years of racing. Show me more and you may get more feedback. Personally, I would not even put a price tag on it since I don't know what engine it has, what's been done and it's real history. As it sits, I value at $3,500.

Thanks for reading this and, I hope, accepting it for what it’s message truly is.

[F34R]

OK let's start fresh
I AM NOT AN E30 GURU. I AM NOT ADVERTISING THIS CAR FOR SALE...ANY PRICES?
I am merely a fellow car enthusiast who has a rare and neat car wanting opinions.
I was unaware that I needed an E30 Doctoral to discuss cars on this forum. That's why I am here asking for knowledgeable and hopefully PROFESSIONAL opinions, not children waiting behind their keyboards ready to bash a stranger at a moments notice.

If you don't intend on posting the car for sale, then don't post it in the for sale section. Don't come to a forum and post a poorly done feeler in a section meant for SELLING cars! Then get pissed because you were called out and started getting butt hurt.

This thread is worthless, but moved it to the general section.

[Fooshe]

You really need to cool off...

Original post:If you look at that and respond the way you did than you should look in the mirror and understand that you are currently a TOOL. I asked for OPINIONS ON VALUE. I didn't ask for every person here to question the integrity of this car. The car is exactly what I said it is. Nothing more and nothing less.

Comical that grown men conduct theirselves this way when hiding behind monitors...what a joke honestly

Seriously, you are staring to sound like the automotive version of Donald Steerling. What you are failing to realize is the integrity of the car is what dictates the value. If the history of it is documented, that helps it. Without that history, your claims are stories. What you have presented doesn't support what you claim; that is the bottom line.

I honestly hope you will try to start over and post something people will want to help you with. Right now you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of and it's counter productive.

Being a racer, I still want to help you and figure out that the car is all about. Maybe it's something special, maybe it's rare or maybe it's just an old race car. I don't quite know yet, but let's figure it out and stop being counter productive.

[E92E30Nut]

Thank you FOOSHE! Finally someone that knows their stuff..this is constructive information and I have no issues with that. I am here to get info from people EXACTLY LIKE YOU. I did get a little excited but I was only protecting myself. I have said several times I only came here to gain information and opinions. I had shut my IPAD but thankfully fired it back up to find your comment and now I am convinced their is decency in this world. I am going to further investigate the car and will try and contact TC KLINE and hopefully get some records of the original build.
I am indeed a young whippersnapper and am extremely in love with the car and understand it is in no way, shape or form the most capable car in the world. All I know is that it runs like a scolded dog and is very cool to be a racecar all it's life. I am trying to gather all the info I can and it just went all wrong on this forum but thank you so much for your words and look forward to talking more with you on this subject in the future.

[TobyB]

Given that the cage probably isn't legal almost anywhere anymore, starting at 5k is probably realistic, if it's DOM. Then if you can prove new engine, add a couple$k or so,
fresh double adjustable shocks another $k, extra wheels, etc etc. Suspension parts,
springs, brakes, diff, trans, blah de blah de blah are what sets the price of a race car.

If the cage is ERW, then half that, if you're lucky, since it'll have to come out again.

That's coming from the club racing world, not the BMW E30 value freakout that seems to
be going on right now.

t

[E92E30Nut]

I came here with the best intentions and the rude and doubting comments right off the bat just hit me wayyy wrong. I'm sorry to the innocent bystanders I'm just not a pushover and not someone who lays down when I truly in my heart feel I've done nothing harmful.

Anyways.....let's figure out what we are dealing with here and see if this car is really what I've been told it is.

FYI my buddy Ron did in fact race a season or close to a full season in IMSA in a Mazda

http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/photo/Ron-Pawley-USA.html

[E92E30Nut]

Ok that's great info Toby. Thanks a bunch and I'm going to look into those items.
I spoke with a guy who had raced SpecE30 and be had said the cage was defiantly from another era and wouldn't pass current NASA regs. He said something about the diameter of tubing and rear cross support may not be to regs

[Fooshe]

Thank you FOOSHE! Finally someone that knows their stuff..this is constructive information and I have no issues with that. I am here to get info from people EXACTLY LIKE YOU. I did get a little excited but I was only protecting myself. I have said several times I only came here to gain information and opinions. I had shut my IPAD but thankfully fired it back up to find your comment and now I am convinced their is decency in this world. I am going to further investigate the car and will try and contact TC KLINE and hopefully get some records of the original build.
I am indeed a young whippersnapper and am extremely in love with the car and understand it is in no way, shape or form the most capable car in the world. All I know is that it runs like a scolded dog and is very cool to be a racecar all it's life. I am trying to gather all the info I can and it just went all wrong on this forum but thank you so much for your words and look forward to talking more with you on this subject in the future.

Ok, now you're cookin' with gas!

Let's hit the reset button and try to figure this shit out.

Ok, you're young, excited and want to learn more....great! What I suggest is starting with the log book an working backwards. Contact the SCCA and see if there is a history on the car with them. Contact J Pauley and see if he knows the car...I bet you learn a TON from him. TC should be able to shed a bunch of light on this car if he can remember it.

Let us know what you find out and just be open about things....we'll help put the pieces together if we can.

Ok, now introduce yourself to the RV3 (by name), say I'm sorry and I bet everyone turns the page on this one. Trust me, not everyone here is a kid and some are actually a wealth of information.

Let the healing begin.

[Fooshe]

Ok that's great info Toby. Thanks a bunch and I'm going to look into those items.
I spoke with a guy who had raced SpecE30 and be had said the cage was defiantly from another era and wouldn't pass current NASA regs. He said something about the diameter of tubing and rear cross support may not be to regs

That's true. I race in Spec E30 now and I could see the cage is really not to standards, but more importantly, even for back then.

NASCAR bars were the only thing IMSA would allow on a production car, but I see the intrusion bar is still in the door, so they may have let it slide. Not that safe, but possible for back in the 80's. Also, the foam padding is not allowed as it is flammable.

I'm very curious what TC says.

[E92E30Nut]

Yes FOOSHE that is the same Ron Pauley who raced the Supra and still does race the Supra. He actually had a decent off at Sebring last year in that Supra and the car just recently came back in race ready form.

For the record, my name is Colt Rogers. I am a young ambitious car freak who upon reading my original post did come out of the gate a little hot. Having said that I only posted what I believe to be fact and have been personally told. I never expected to get the response I did but can sort of understand the disbelief and ridicule by some who thought I was just another idiot who joined the forum and thought they had a ONE OF KIND E30. The fact is that what I said in original is still to my knowledge true. I don't have all the records for the car yet but should get ahold of them soon, never wrecked would be a hard one to prove so I suppose that should've probably been left out.
I do know this car is special and has been preserved to a high level underneath the skin anyway. It needs cleaning up new wrap, new wheels (although the old school 3 piece are cool) and then I think it could be a very special thing. The components on this car are "the best" and I say that because I know owner and I know how he does stuff. He once sent this car to Franz Blam Racing to have it serviced, aligned, etc. before a race if that's any indication of the length he went to do get stuff done at a high level.

Ok so thanks again for getting things back on the right path and I hope to discuss this much further with anyone willing to help.

[TobyB]

Take a close look at the BAT ad, and that'll help you with research-
for example, it costs several k and quite a bit of time to get dry sump working...
...and that list leaves out lots of things like the diff, rear suspension mods...
and would take some reciepts to prove that the motor's anything but a placeholder.

So for 'your' car, start taking lots of pictures and copying down all the names and
numbers off the parts you can find. It'll help start to sort things out with it.
And then there'll be lots of follow- up questions, because there are LOTS of ways
to do this. And most of them aren't completely wrong...

Selling a race car is a very personal thing, because you have a very specialized,
custom car and the buyer is trying to fit it into a very small niche in the world.
So they'll be looking for very specific things about the cage, engine, brakes and
so forth, and many of the seeming 'small details' like the cage attachment specifics can be deal- breakers.

And let's face it, none of us really 'need' a race car...
...even though I'd go nuts witout one!

hth

t

[E92E30Nut]

This is awesome feedback Toby I greatly appreciate your input. This is exactly what I've been needing and I commend you for being the first one aside from FOOSHE to actually take this discussion to the level it deserves to be on. I will start doing some digging and taking pictures when I'm with the car again which won't be for a few days but I will get the info and try to lay it out and see what comes of it. Thanks again and have a good one

[E92E30Nut]

Take a close look at the BAT ad, and that'll help you with research-
for example, it costs several k and quite a bit of time to get dry sump working...
...and that list leaves out lots of things like the diff, rear suspension mods...
and would take some reciepts to prove that the motor's anything but a placeholder.

So for 'your' car, start taking lots of pictures and copying down all the names and
numbers off the parts you can find. It'll help start to sort things out with it.
And then there'll be lots of follow- up questions, because there are LOTS of ways
to do this. And most of them aren't completely wrong...

Selling a race car is a very personal thing, because you have a very specialized,
custom car and the buyer is trying to fit it into a very small niche in the world.
So they'll be looking for very specific things about the cage, engine, brakes and
so forth, and many of the seeming 'small details' like the cage attachment specifics can be deal- breakers.

And let's face it, none of us really 'need' a race car...
...even though I'd go nuts witout one!

hth

t

This is what a came here to be involved in. Thanks in advance for all feedback and advice like this