The Welding Thread

[doorman]

Wire welders vary in current (amps) while maintaining a constant voltage. A 230v welder and 110v welder will both weld at 20 volts, but the 230v welder will be capable of many more amps at the same voltage.

No matter the process, mig, fcaw, or stick, amperage always controls how much electrode is melted off into the weld, and voltage controls the arc length.

Biggest thing about flux core a lot of people don't understand is that wire speed directly controls the amperage, which controls your burn off/deposit rate, which ultimately controls your heat. So as you push more wire into the puddle, the welder wants to maintain the same voltage, so it increases the amperage to burn the wire off faster and maintain the same arc length.

On a stick welder the current is constant, so as the arc length increases, your burn off rate remains constant while the arc cone widens (voltage increases). This allows the operator a margin of error when feeding the stick. If it were constant voltage, as you bury the stick into the puddle the amperage would shoot up and the weld would get super hot, then as you pulls out a little the arc would cool way down and possibly extinguish itself. It would be like playing cat and mouse, and is nearly impossible to weld like that.

So I think the answer to why 110v fcaw machines don't work as well is that they run out of amperage before the electrode can burn off fast enough to form enough slag and create a proper weld. It gets to a point where you try and feed any faster the gun just kicks back/ wire stubs the work piece, and the machine can't create enough amps to burn it.



Welder duty cycle is always based on a 10 minute timeframe. 20% duty cycle means if you weld for 2 minutes the other 8 have to be idling. The ratio isn't proportional, so if you only weld for 1 minute you could probably get away with letting it cool for 3 minutes. depends on the machine. 110v vs 230v has nothing to do with duty cycle, other than that most 230v/110v combo machines have a higher duty cycle when in 110v mode.

I knew someone would have a better explanation then mine.

[4x4_e30]

having never used a 230v welder, and being new to welding, how would a 230v welder help? since i would be welding on the same material with the same thickness, and would probably be using the same diameter wire, wouldn't i have to keep the voltage setting the same to prevent making holes?

does a higher voltage welder have more amps that it's pushing at the same voltage for a better current?

Wire welders vary in current (amps) while maintaining a constant voltage. A 230v welder and 110v welder will both weld at 20 volts, but the 230v welder will be capable of many more amps at the same voltage.

No matter the process, mig, fcaw, or stick, amperage always controls how much electrode is melted off into the weld, and voltage controls the arc length.

Biggest thing about flux core a lot of people don't understand is that wire speed directly controls the amperage, which controls your burn off/deposit rate, which ultimately controls your heat. So as you push more wire into the puddle, the welder wants to maintain the same voltage, so it increases the amperage to burn the wire off faster and maintain the same arc length.

On a stick welder the current is constant, so as the arc length increases, your burn off rate remains constant while the arc cone widens (voltage increases). This allows the operator a margin of error when feeding the stick. If it were constant voltage, as you bury the stick into the puddle the amperage would shoot up and the weld would get super hot, then as you pulls out a little the arc would cool way down and possibly extinguish itself. It would be like playing cat and mouse, and is nearly impossible to weld like that.

So I think the answer to why 110v fcaw machines don't work as well is that they run out of amperage before the electrode can burn off fast enough to form enough slag and create a proper weld. It gets to a point where you try and feed any faster the gun just kicks back/ wire stubs the work piece, and the machine can't create enough amps to burn it.

230v wil have a longer " duty cycle".

Simple explanation......

110v weld for 1 minute wait for 5 minutes for welder to " catch up"

230v weld for 3 minutes wait for 2.

I think that's correct

Welder duty cycle is always based on a 10 minute timeframe. 20% duty cycle means if you weld for 2 minutes the other 8 have to be idling. The ratio isn't proportional, so if you only weld for 1 minute you could probably get away with letting it cool for 3 minutes. depends on the machine. 110v vs 230v has nothing to do with duty cycle, other than that most 230v/110v combo machines have a higher duty cycle when in 110v mode.

[Northern]

I would use the 316L on the SS to SS and the 308L on the SS to mild. a 309L would be better for the SS to mild weld but lets keep in mind...we're talking about an exhaust system. Those should do fine to hold that all together.

I've heard of 309L being the proper thing, but that sounds good to me. Thanks Ross.

FWIW, on my Neon SRT-4, I welded an aluminized 3" to 2.5" connector to my T-304 SS 3" exhaust with 70S-6 and 75/25... LOL

It welded perfectly fine, I hit it with some high temp black and was good to go! I didn't care much since it was under the car.


But don't do what I did, do what IronFreak said!

Thinking about blasting any dissimilar metal joints/welds with some high temp paint(where it's not visible). The salt air and shitty winters around here will make short work of most metal unfortunately.

[McGyver]

230v wil have a longer " duty cycle".

Simple explanation......

110v weld for 1 minute wait for 5 minutes for welder to " catch up"

230v weld for 3 minutes wait for 2.

I think that's correct

well you're mostly correct about duty cycles. Although i have a 20% duty cycle (weld for 1 min and let it cool for 4), you can get 110v welders with a 100% duty cycle. all the duty cycle is important for is efficiency of welding. like a professional welder wouldn't want to waste 80% of the time sitting around waiting for the machine to cool.

still looking for the correct answer.

[doorman]

having never used a 230v welder, and being new to welding, how would a 230v welder help? since i would be welding on the same material with the same thickness, and would probably be using the same diameter wire, wouldn't i have to keep the voltage setting the same to prevent making holes?

does a higher voltage welder have more amps that it's pushing at the same voltage for a better current?

230v wil have a longer " duty cycle".

Simple explanation......

110v weld for 1 minute wait for 5 minutes for welder to " catch up"

230v weld for 3 minutes wait for 2.

I think that's correct

[red2.4srt]

FWIW, on my Neon SRT-4, I welded an aluminized 3" to 2.5" connector to my T-304 SS 3" exhaust with 70S-6 and 75/25... LOL

It welded perfectly fine, I hit it with some high temp black and was good to go! I didn't care much since it was under the car.


But don't do what I did, do what IronFreak said!

[IronFreak]

I have a bunch of 316L stainless 3" tube and 304 resonator/vbands/muffler and stock e36 downpipes.

I have er70s6 (I think), 308L, and 316L wire.

Am I correct in assuming 308L to join the two different types of stainless /stainless to stock e36 steel?

My budget is pretty much blown for this car, and I'm trying to get away without buying more types of wire

I would use the 316L on the SS to SS and the 308L on the SS to mild. a 309L would be better for the SS to mild weld but lets keep in mind...we're talking about an exhaust system. Those should do fine to hold that all together.

[Northern]

I have a bunch of 316L stainless 3" tube and 304 resonator/vbands/muffler and stock e36 downpipes.

I have er70s6 (I think), 308L, and 316L wire.

Am I correct in assuming 308L to join the two different types of stainless /stainless to stock e36 steel?

My budget is pretty much blown for this car, and I'm trying to get away without buying more types of wire

[pantelones]

yeah....you got hosed on that re-fill man. I pay $63 and that's for a 300.....

Welds are looking good dude! I just did a bunch of aluminum intercooler pipe last night....talking so much to the guy I forgot to take pictures....

You're kidding? I was paying like 60 and change for my refills, and half the time they would give me a 150cf tank at the 125 price. No wonder why I thought I was getting a good deal haha :sad:

Thanks man! Post some photos next time you work with aluminum... That is next on the list for me. ;) I didn't get a chance to play with it when I had my square wave 175, but I might be upgrading from my HTP 131 to the 221 ;D


I also finished the muffler and ran it once! It sounds mean, but tolerable

IMG_0218 by Los Pantelones!, on Flickr

I decided on mesh, and it worked great! Packing and cutting the steel wool was a pain in the ass though...

IMG_0219 by Los Pantelones!, on Flickr

Finished product... I tacked and then silicon bronzed the mounting tab on so it has some give. I'm a little worried about the vibrations at the mounting point.

IMG_0220 by Los Pantelones!, on Flickr

IMG_0221 by Los Pantelones!, on Flickr

After first run...

IMG_0222 by Los Pantelones!, on Flickr

OEM as fuck haha

IMG_0223 by Los Pantelones!, on Flickr

[McGyver]

Your problem is the 110v.....just doesn't have what it takes.

having never used a 230v welder, and being new to welding, how would a 230v welder help? since i would be welding on the same material with the same thickness, and would probably be using the same diameter wire, wouldn't i have to keep the voltage setting the same to prevent making holes?

does a higher voltage welder have more amps that it's pushing at the same voltage for a better current?

[IronFreak]

both are Lincoln 124-SP Plus. 110v with infinite voltage and wire speed controls. One running solid with with CO2/Argon mix, and the other running Lincoln's brand of flux core. Both on the same exhaust pieces (granted it was cleaner for the GMAW and was a little dirty for the FCAW).

Your problem is the 110v.....just doesn't have what it takes.

[McGyver]

What welder do you have?

both are Lincoln 124-SP Plus. 110v with infinite voltage and wire speed controls. One running solid with with CO2/Argon mix, and the other running Lincoln's brand of flux core. Both on the same exhaust pieces (granted it was cleaner for the GMAW and was a little dirty for the FCAW).

[red2.4srt]

Can confirm. I used my welder last night, which is the exact same model as the shop uses, only I ran fluxcore. The welds were sooo much harder to make and the end result was a lot worse. Since I could lay nice beads with the gas, it convinced me that it's not my welding ability which needs to change, I need to get a gas bottle.

What welder do you have?

[McGyver]

Fluxcore blows ass on small welders.

Can confirm. I used my welder last night, which is the exact same model as the shop uses, only I ran fluxcore. The welds were sooo much harder to make and the end result was a lot worse. Since I could lay nice beads with the gas, it convinced me that it's not my welding ability which needs to change, I need to get a gas bottle.

[IronFreak]

yeah....you got hosed on that re-fill man. I pay $63 and that's for a 300.....

Welds are looking good dude! I just did a bunch of aluminum intercooler pipe last night....talking so much to the guy I forgot to take pictures....