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    #31
    Where I live, I'm spoiled with the level of traffic we have. So I might be speaking to you guys who have to deal with very slow speed limits and movement all day and that's just what you're used to. But there's some important things that need to be brought up.

    1) Slow driving isn't necessarily safer, infact, it can be exponentially more dangerous. You would hope a slow car on the road would be in the right lane, but that doesn't happen all of the time. A car that's going slower than the flow of traffic, is impeding it. This can be a huge problem when people try to get around them and pass on the right. Now you have people traveling at huge varying speeds. Some guy might be switching lanes from the right to the middle doing 70, and you have another car attempting to passing the slow car, switching from the left to the middle doing 85. If no collision occurs, the sight of the 85 mph car's brake light could potentially cause a chain reaction of braking cars that be seen for hours.

    2) Montana actually had no speed limit for a few years. Not only was is the safest stretch of years, but when they reverted to a speed limit, the amount of accidents doubled that year.

    3) There are places in the U.S doing tests of 80mph speed limits. What they noticed was more people actually tended to follow the pass on the left and drive on the right philosophy. Not everyone wants to cruise at 85-90mph, so they stay in the right going a little slower and faster traffic passes them without holdup.

    If it were up to me, autobahn rules outside of city centers for 2+ lane highways, harder to get a license (even a highway test), and better education on left lane etiquette. There's no reason a car should be doing unrestricted speeds when there's a huge potential for traffic. But, in the middle of the desert, from Vegas to LA, there's no reason to be stuck doing 65 (granted, many drive 80-130 on that stretch anyway). Not only do no/high speed limits cause less accidents, but they actually encourage the pass on the left only philosophy.

    Of course, that probably wont happen for a while, if ever in the U.S. I agree with expanding trains to provide the hulling of goods. Not only would that affect the number of trucks on the roads, but the roads themselves would last longer due to reduced loads and stresses. Also I agree with higher speed limits the further left you go (lane wise). I even think there should be a minimum and higher speed for car pool lanes.
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      #32
      Another thing people don't really consider about higher speed limits is that it causes fewer cars to be on the road at any given time. If it only takes you 20 minutes to get there instead of 30, you just removed yourself from the total on-road population for 10 minutes. You and a bunch of other people.
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        #33
        how could speed limits be reformed?

        I like all of these ideas, but even if some of the high speed limit/ no speed limit stuff happened, there are too many 'collateral' drivers who will either misuse it, make it scary and dangerous, or cause accidents. by collateral drivers i mean those kids who want to mad tyte, people who think they're good drivers but aren't, confused older people not used to the system, people in vehicles with low visibility, and women


        (100% just kidding about the woman part)

        Theres this kid at my school, he's a year behind me. he recently got his license. he's a flat brim, sperry wearing, multicolor polo short emancipating lacrosse player who's a disrespectful asshole to everyone not in his little exclusive friend group. We all know someone who is fundamentally like this, even in the professional world. So anyway, his parents bought him one of those scion box things with a manual transmission, and he thought he was a bad ass (because about 5 people know how to drive stick where we're from), and proceded to drill holes in the muffler to let that four banger sing. A couple weeks later, he was speeding on the highway, and when the wind started pulling the scion to the side, he didn't know how to countersteer and ended up somehow rolling it. he's fine, but what? it's people like this, combined with people who just suck in general that I'm saying would make it impossible for speed limit reform.
        Because even if they gave out some sort of special sticker or license class or something... it would be discriminating or unfair or some bullshit and our culture doesn't like being told 'no' in favor of empty praises and vehicular equality, and self parking cars and cars that don't nee backup cameras yet have to have them and plastic everything and fucking wifi in the car (what a damn good idea chevy... another distraction.)

        Basically, unless I can tell you are a car enthusiast (well maintained, you can tell its taken care of, maybe lightly modded car, maybe car enthisiast-esque stickers, etc.) or you drive an e30.... I don't trust you as much as I'd like to. and I always pay attention maybe more than i should around other drivers, but with a speed limit of 80 and beyond...
        yowzers.

        Okay I'm done. Haha sorry.


        --Mike
        Last edited by 15Michaeljoseph; 05-10-2015, 06:28 AM.
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          #34
          I think restricting the car you can drive or its amount of HP wouldn't really make an impact, nor would seperate privileges for those with a special license. I do like the idea of increasing speed limits but I'll still have suburban mom tailgating my ass in town in her Escalade no matter what we do.

          Just yesterday i was going 40 in a 35 and had a younger girl in an old beat up 4 runner riding my ass and then swerves over to right lane, guns it to 60 and swerves back over and cuts me off just before having to slam on her brakes right in front of me because she did all this right before a light. Unfortunately they say you can't fix stupid
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            #35
            Originally posted by e30onBBSs View Post
            Yea so how would you implement more speed? To play devils adcovate; more capable cars also means that when people crash them it will be at higher speeds probably, it's still deadly at high speeds. If the speed limit was 90, no doubt would fatalities increase as well. Polices job is to "protect and serve" and for sure the government makes $ off speeders but the streets are safer (more protected) when those people get a hefty fine or lose their license.

            Somewhere in there is a middle ground of capable cars and drivers that shouldn't be held back
            Just like they have done up until the late 60s... Survival of the fittest. I bet you chance of surviving a crash at 65 in the 50s was much lower than surviving an 80 mph crash today. Police need to work on pulling the people who are not competent and confident off the road.

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              #36
              Originally posted by fanofe30s View Post
              Where I live, I'm spoiled with the level of traffic we have. So I might be speaking to you guys who have to deal with very slow speed limits and movement all day and that's just what you're used to. But there's some important things that need to be brought up.

              1) Slow driving isn't necessarily safer, infact, it can be exponentially more dangerous. You would hope a slow car on the road would be in the right lane, but that doesn't happen all of the time. A car that's going slower than the flow of traffic, is impeding it. This can be a huge problem when people try to get around them and pass on the right. Now you have people traveling at huge varying speeds. Some guy might be switching lanes from the right to the middle doing 70, and you have another car attempting to passing the slow car, switching from the left to the middle doing 85. If no collision occurs, the sight of the 85 mph car's brake light could potentially cause a chain reaction of braking cars that be seen for hours.

              2) Montana actually had no speed limit for a few years. Not only was is the safest stretch of years, but when they reverted to a speed limit, the amount of accidents doubled that year.

              3) There are places in the U.S doing tests of 80mph speed limits. What they noticed was more people actually tended to follow the pass on the left and drive on the right philosophy. Not everyone wants to cruise at 85-90mph, so they stay in the right going a little slower and faster traffic passes them without holdup.

              If it were up to me, autobahn rules outside of city centers for 2+ lane highways, harder to get a license (even a highway test), and better education on left lane etiquette. There's no reason a car should be doing unrestricted speeds when there's a huge potential for traffic. But, in the middle of the desert, from Vegas to LA, there's no reason to be stuck doing 65 (granted, many drive 80-130 on that stretch anyway). Not only do no/high speed limits cause less accidents, but they actually encourage the pass on the left only philosophy.

              Of course, that probably wont happen for a while, if ever in the U.S. I agree with expanding trains to provide the hulling of goods. Not only would that affect the number of trucks on the roads, but the roads themselves would last longer due to reduced loads and stresses. Also I agree with higher speed limits the further left you go (lane wise). I even think there should be a minimum and higher speed for car pool lanes.
              100% correct. Montana was reasonable speed. If you are in a Mack truck going over 60 you got pulled. I saw vettes ripping by at 125 or so and no problems. I was told the only reason they went back to speed limits is because the federal gov mandated it for continued funding of the roads.

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                #37
                I can probably give some good feedback in to reduction of speed limits and there effect on death toll.

                Being in Australia there has always been a huge goal to reduce road death tolls. Unfortunately this has inevitably resulted in 2 outcomes that seem disproportionate to the expected results.

                Unlike lot of the world, Australia has relative low speed limits and a lot of them. Most common are

                110km/h = 68MPH
                100km/h = 62MPH
                90km/h = 56MPH
                80km/h = 50MPH
                60km/h = 37MPH
                50km/h = 31MPH
                40km/p = 25MPH

                So a few issues we find here, due to such a wide variety of standard limits, and inconsistency in speed limits on a single road. You are always looking at your speed to see how fast you are going, creating what I see as a inattentive driver as they distracted by something other then what is in front of them. In some parts of Australia you can be fine for going as little as 3Km/h or 2MPH over the speed limit.

                For some time now Australia has been trying to curve the death toll buy reducing speed limits. For the last 5 years our death toll has been

                2014 = 82
                2013 = 81
                2012 = 80
                2011 = 82
                2010 = 84

                In this time we have seen city speed limits reduced from 60km/h to 50km/h. 80km/h zones reduced to 60km/h and 110km/h reduced to 90km/h, does not seem to have made much of a difference to me.

                The reduction in speed limits seems to be more to help catch speeding motorists to help raise revenue for the police, than to make the roads safer.

                The excuse that the police use is that speed was a contributing factor to the fatality. Well I would like to see the statistics on this.

                It so happens the we have the access to the statistics right here https://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/..._database.aspx

                Now can anyone see the gaps in this database? It only states posted speed limit's not actual speed of the vehicle, it maybe all well and good to say that most of our fatalities are in 100km/h plus zones but how fast were they really travelling 120, 130, 140 maybe? If most of these fatalities are due to excessive speeding then what is a reduction in speed limit going to change? Clearly the speed limit meant nothing in these circumstances.

                End of the day speed is not cause, it is the driver’s skill to drive to the conditions and know the appropriate limits of their vehicles. Speed is only contributing factor, not the cause.
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                  #38
                  how could speed limits be reformed?

                  I had a great opportunity to talk to two state troopers/ swat guys at this fair in my town, they brought down an armored truck as part of the fair and I struck up a convo.

                  We were talking about police and stuff then I asked them if they thought the speed limits should change. They said they think they should be 70 or 75 on the highway, but it doesnt matter because they don't really even pull people at 80, so it's fine. I asked about skilled drivers/ nice cars and they said it's not the guy in the porshe doing 120 they are worried about as cops, its the guy in the middle lane not paying attention and not checking his blind spot or something and causing an accident. They asked me if I had any high speed training and I said no. Then they told me that at least one trooper crashes PER day and they have tons of training. They asked if I like driving fast and I said yes, and I told them it's because of the adrenaline/ edge of the seat feeling. They said dude go jump out of planes and I was like maybe hahaha but I can't do that everyday.

                  Their main reason for speed limits to them is to try to minimize the times they have to go to someones door and say "your son's dead because he lost control on the highway and crashed". They probably will pull but they were saying that the ticket doesn't matter to them, the money doesn't matter to them, but as genuine people doing their jobs they want to make sure you realize how dangerous it really is. Money can help get that message across when you get smacked with a $400 fine, but they know from all those deaths they've seen that it's not worth it. It was pretty eye opening and great to be able to speak to the police in a casual and relaxed format, and pick at their brains a bit!

                  Tl:DR cops are worried about the dumb drivers, not the ones who go fast. The speed is part of the problem in the accident obviously, but most of the time a dumb driver is the reason the speed kills.
                  Last edited by e30onBBSs; 05-10-2015, 04:05 PM.
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                    #39
                    Originally posted by slammin.e28 View Post
                    Meh, this helps make me money.

                    ...but I'm all for improving driver's ed.

                    Also, STRICT enforcement of left lane passing rules.

                    ...and less trucks. Trains should be carrying cargo across the country...not trucks.
                    Dude... you are speaking my language!

                    Totally agree. And far too many people who shouldn't honestly be driving have licenses. We have a show up here called "Canada's Worst Driver" and its AMAZING how some of these people ever got past the driving exam.
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                      #40
                      Here in CT, one thing that really gets me is that there's no periodic safety inspection. I see people driving around on bald tires, visibly improper tire pressures, with blown shocks, nonfunctional lighting, and other safety concerns. Some cars are barely rolling down the road, but as long as they're doing the speed limit, they're fine.

                      Conversely, I'm driving around in a car that has no mechanical issues, proper tires, and no safety issues. Think about when the speed limits were established and look at the stopping distances at speed limits for the average car back then. Mine can do *double* that speed and stop at the same distance. Yet, if I do 10 over, I can get pulled over and get a big fine.

                      It's ridiculous that we have so many rolling safety concerns that we ignore, and place such high emphasis enforcing speed limits that are outdated and overly conservative in many areas.
                      -Nick
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                        #41
                        I want to know why the "driver's test" isn't so much a driver's test as it is a parking test... When I got my license, we literally went around the block and I parallel parked for the person, and he seemed impressed that my mom's e46 was a 5 speed and that I'd take the test with a clutch. It seems ridiculous that there isn't a skid pad test like autoX in the wet or something as the driver's test. I've learned so much about control in the 3 autoX events I've participated in its not even funny.

                        I'm constantly scanning and I never drive next to or in peep's blind spots on the freeway because I never know if that person is a flipping idiot or just not paying attention. I constantly move over for people so they will pass me, even if I'm in the far right lane on the freeway I'll move left so they go by and tailgate some other sucker...

                        Seems like most peeps on the street don't think that driving is real work, it takes much more awareness than most give to it...
                        -Christian

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                          #42
                          ^^ this!! I have a friend in France and even though it wasn't for drivers tests there was something sponsored by his insurance company that was just like that. It was really wet and there was a strip of "water strips" and there was an insurance person in the car and they got up to 30kph and then someone would set off a random strip at a random point and if they avoided the shooting water x amount of times or breaked before it they got an insurance cut for being good at reacting. Definitely would very good.
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                          Umass Amherst
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                            #43
                            It's not the speed that concerns me, it's what you do when you lose control at speed that really means something.

                            For example, My most recent accident happened because a negligent driver decided to make a left turn into oncoming traffic, purposely crossing a painted median while doing so. She did so when I was about 50' away, leaving me no time to react. Assuming I was going 45mph, that means I was traveling at 66 feet/second. Not much time to do anything, but I still managed to lock the brakes and veer to the right, in a desperate attempt to avoid hitting this driver. I often wonder what the correct reaction should have been to such action. If I would have swerved left, I would have gone head first into a line of cars also trying to turn left.

                            I still hit this driver, and I will likely pay for the rest of my life in injuries.

                            It doesn't help any, but this driver gave strength to the already overwhelming stereotype that asian women shouldn't drive.
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                              #44
                              Originally posted by phreshkid View Post
                              I often wonder what the correct reaction should have been to such action.
                              This is why I want a truck with a big bull bar, so I can speed up and aim directly for that driver's door.

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                                #45
                                Brief IQ test, and mandatory warning stickers,lights, for dumbasses.

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