Be realistic: What IS a car that is a good replacement for a E30?

[Vincent Brick]

I really don't think the 1st gen interior is any worse than the E30. Maybe not as nice of materials, but everything in the dashboard area is certainly more serviceable and the layout is decent. Both have shitty center console designs. Neons sure have nicer shifters, especially with the aftermarket options out there, but then again my Dad's '83 4 speed Dodge truck had superior shifting action to my E30.

My suspension job will finally be done in the next few days, as long as i don't have to pull the strut housing i just got to give back to the guy who suddenly wants me to pay him more than its worth for it once its on my car... I'm just not sure if I should try and drive my E30 for a few more months just to try to get some use out of all the cash i have had to throw at it, or if i should start shopping for an AP1 right away before this things needs some other major service. There's not much I haven't replaced though, suspension and complete driveline have been replaced in the last year.

[varg]

Those neons can handle really well and are pretty light, that's all they have going for them though. They're more reliable and better designed than most Chrysler products but the interiors are downright awful in typical chrysler fashion.

[Vincent Brick]

Yeah, can't get behind a Neon either. My ex-MIL had an auto Neon, and it sucked ass. I owned a MkIII Golf at the same time she had her Neon, and it was no contest.

Now I have heard that the manual Neons were some fun, but can't speak to that.

But comparing a 97 Golf diesel (not TDI) and a 98 1st Gen Neon... Anytime I had to drive that Neon, I hated my life. It was smaller inside than my Golf. My Diesel could easily outrun it. Among other Neon problems I noted: almost no rear suspension to think of, spare tire well kept filling with water, bad seats (couldn't sit in them for more than an hour), bad control placement, and generally the fit and finish was well below par. There was only $4K difference in the price (the neon cost her 18, my golf was 22), but there was a discernible difference.

Oh yeah, automatic Neons SUCK. I would never consider owning one. Manual 1st gen Neons are loads of fun, especially with the 3.94 gears the performance models had, and even more so with the factory Koni SAs that came on ACR models 96-99. They do have limited suspension travel, you can't slam them like a Civic/Integra, and they handle best at stock ride height typically. The trunk filling with water is just tail light seals, after a few years you typically have to replace the gaskets and use some RTV, but it was never really much of an issue on mine. Yeah the seats suck, but so do E30 factory seats IMO, sport seats and either variety of 1st gen neon seat are equally uncomfortable on long drives. I don't find the control placement to be any worse than E30s, the fog light button hiding behind the steering wheel was always my only gripe. The worst part about owning one is always feeling the need to have to defend it.
I loved my Neons, but the E30 does offer a far more rewarding driving experience, and everybody loves them.

My buddy bought a brand new $20k 2001 VR6 GTI, when the 24v first came out, and he was noticeably disappointed when we went to the drag strip and my $4k '98 SOHC car with a couple cheap bolt ons walked him by almost half a second each time we lined up.

Fun fact: By 1998 Neons had won 1500 SCCA podium finishes. Very competitive in Showroom Stock and IT at the time.

See, I still feel the need to defend them. I would not recommend a 1st gen to an E30 owner, but I have considered ditching my E30 for an SRT4.

[Vincent Brick]

Damn, and you were a tech, those are the guys that actually have a chance at making a buck. Please feel free to PM career suggestions, been trying to come up with something I can do for years now, I am absolutely clueless. With my age and health issues its hard to have a lot of hope.

[estoguy]

Yeah, can't get behind a Neon either. My ex-MIL had an auto Neon, and it sucked ass. I owned a MkIII Golf at the same time she had her Neon, and it was no contest.

Now I have heard that the manual Neons were some fun, but can't speak to that.

But comparing a 97 Golf diesel (not TDI) and a 98 1st Gen Neon... Anytime I had to drive that Neon, I hated my life. It was smaller inside than my Golf. My Diesel could easily outrun it. Among other Neon problems I noted: almost no rear suspension to think of, spare tire well kept filling with water, bad seats (couldn't sit in them for more than an hour), bad control placement, and generally the fit and finish was well below par. There was only $4K difference in the price (the neon cost her 18, my golf was 22), but there was a discernible difference.

[Exodus_2pt0]

I feel you man, I always loved cars, and became a technician as a result. Then after 10 years of shit pay and hating my hobby, I left wrenching on cars. I still wrench, but the income is significantly better, my new career is rewarding, and I finally enjoy working on cars again.

Give up the hobby until you find a rewarding career, then get back to it.

[Vincent Brick]

Lost me at Neon.

High horsepower fwd sucks. Yes it can put down fast track times, but it still sucks. Been there done that, and it sucked.


Just get one of these.

(New page, gotta whore the S a little more.). Sure I'm working on it all the time, but hard to find and parts don't go in the same sentence, so there's that.


Seriously though, I do love me some S2000. When I was thinking about picking up one I remember reading that with a supercharger and gear change, they can pull off 11's. Wouldn't be too shabby for a DD, but I didn't look into how they hold up at high power.

I LOVED my Neons, best cars I have ever owned, I had 4 of them over 13 years. The ONLY reason I got rid of the last one was my desire for RWD so I can learn how to drift, but that isn't happening (not enough power and too afraid of destroying my DD) so the RWD seems pointless. I need fun and reliable much more than I need fast, and my Neons were all much more reliable than my E30 or literally any other car that I have owned.

There is no way I would ever own an Audi, or any other AWD car for that matter. AWD in SoCal seems like more stuff to break for minimal benefit. Once my E30 is gone i doubt I will own another German vehicle, cost of ownership is just too high, and the complexity even in 2WD just means more shit to break and fix. I can barely come up with the time and money to keep my E30 on the road, and I know those Audis are shit to work on and fucking expensive.

An S2000 itself is a huge financial stretch for me, serious mods would be out of the question, and not having the time/money/patience to work on cars is part of why I want one. Despite growing up and working in the racing world, I never had money for fast cars myself, so honestly now that I am older (pushing 40) fast stuff kinda scares me now. Always wanted a car with over 200hp, but all these 400+whp street cars I am around at my job just seem silly to me anymore. The idea of an 11 second DD is just insane to me, I couldn't imagine having an 11 sec car even if i could go back to affording a 2nd car and garage and stuff.

At this point I consider myself a disgruntled car guy. I have put so much effort into the whole thing both as a career and with my own low-buck builds, and after so many years of struggling through it making shit money and left feeling generally unfulfilled watching all these rich guys have the fun I have dreamed of my whole life but can't afford, I just want to forget I ever was a car enthusiast, find a new career, move to the inner city and ride my bike everywhere. Its become a fucking curse, an albatross.

/rant. Sorry, I rant a lot lately.

[Exodus_2pt0]

Lost me at Neon.

High horsepower fwd sucks. Yes it can put down fast track times, but it still sucks. Been there done that, and it sucked.


Just get one of these.

(New page, gotta whore the S a little more.). Sure I'm working on it all the time, but hard to find and parts don't go in the same sentence, so there's that.


Seriously though, I do love me some S2000. When I was thinking about picking up one I remember reading that with a supercharger and gear change, they can pull off 11's. Wouldn't be too shabby for a DD, but I didn't look into how they hold up at high power.

[Vincent Brick]

And S2000 parts are so much easier to come across in San Diego. LA, Orange County and those guys have no problem finding E30 parts, they got a tight scene, but down here I needed a strut housing recently and it was either drive 4 hours for one at a reasonable price or search 4 days in SD to find one for 4x the cost. I have yet to drive an AP2, and I'm sure I would like the extra grunt as I don't do high RPM very often, but I really like the AP1 interior with the carpeted tunnel better, it seems more comfortable.

S2k owners are definitely not as friendly though. Most E30 people wave or throw deuces when I'm driving mine, in 3 weeks have not had another S2k driver acknowledge me on the road. I see a lot more S2ks than E30s tho.

At this point the only reason I'm not selling my E30 immediately is because I have had to put so much work into it and I have spent so much more than it will probably ever be worth that I want to try and get some of my moneys worth before I let it go since now I've basically rebuild the whole fucking car. If I could go back I am not sure I would do the E30 experience again. I could have kept my last Neon, done another turbo setup, and done coilovers, wheels AND repaint for less than I have into my E30 and would have a car that would outperform my 325i in virtually every way.

I'm sure E30s are a lot more rewarding when you aren't relying on them for your 80 mile daily commute, trying to keep it running without a garage or second vehicle.

[Exodus_2pt0]

Don't bother, I used to have a little annual event I would do. I would take my girlfriend (so the salesman couldn't ride), and take an S2000 out for a extended test drive. Did it 3 years in a row. I do prefer the 2.0 models though, a little more raw.

I own a beater Miata now, it doesn't compare.

[Vincent Brick]

I probably posted in this thread before, but since my E30 has been down the last 3 weeks for a nightmare suspension job I have put almost 2000 miles on an AP1 S2000 on KW V2s, including a 600 mile round trip to Havasu, and one of those is almost certainly going to be my next car. I actually find it incredibly more comfortable than my E30, loads more fun, more simple, and I have no use for a back seat. My boss and coworker have both owned several and say they can get me into one for under $10k, and they have lots of spares if I need them.

I should probably at least drive a Miata before making that jump, I've never had the opportunity, but in stock form I can't see it being anything but a disappointment compared to the S2k, and not needing a ton of mods is part of the S2k appeal for me.

[varg]

242GT

http://bringatrailer.com/2015/09/23/1979-volvo-242-gt/

Eh... 240s are good cars, but they're a fair amount heavier than an E30, have a live rear axle, and if you're making any decent amount of power you'll frag the weak stock transmissions, BTDT. It costs a pretty penny for the adapters and gearbox if you want to have a strong manual, T5s are the cheapest option but they aren't as strong as a run of the mill Getrag 260, which I recall being a little more expensive to swap in because of the adapters. The M90 is another option but is $$$$ as I recall. I loved my turbocharged 244, but I like my E30 a lot more, and it isn't even the right one!

[2mAn]

Ive really been thinking about a 2002 myself recently, but damn my E30 is fun

[oliver.r]

i sold the m3. kept and finished the 2002. couldnt be happier

[Exodus_2pt0]

You couldn't pay me to own a Miata..

Everyone has a price.