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**JRowe** · 10-23-2003, 10:04 AM

Score!!!!! Even though I won't get around to building the engine for a year or so, I got the whole bottom end for $150. Aluminum block is mine. Hold the applause please.

I'll throw S52 crank, con rods, and pistons in there and have an aluminum block 3.2 for my transplant. Obviously, I'll keep everyone updated on my progress.

**Stu** · 10-23-2003, 10:37 AM

I assume this Jim Rowe? I believe you know my father, Pete.

Anyways, AWESOME SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These blocks run about 10x that price (or more) from the dealer.

YOU, SIR, ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Stu** · 10-23-2003, 10:41 AM

Side note,

I'd recommend using the 3.0 or 3.2 crank, but I'd probably retain the 2.8L 84mm bore pistons. They are graphite coated and work very well. 3.0L 86mm or 3.2L 86.4 pistons won't fit in the aluminum block because you can't stretch the bore far enough though.

You can fit aftermarket forged 85mm sluggers though!

Aluminum blocks rock!!! 52 pounds lighter and cross-bolt mains.!!!

**Stu** · 10-23-2003, 10:42 AM

crap, another side note...

2.8 crank is 84mm and forged, so if you retain the stock pistons you'll have a square bottomend, which rocks.

Go whatever route you please though. :)

**JRowe** · 10-23-2003, 11:25 AM

I'm not Jim Rowe. I'm Jeff Rowe and I'm not related in anyway that I know of. I just happen to have the same first initial and last name. Since my username at work and everywhere else seems to automatically be jrowe, then I use it here too. It's just less to remember. Also, you're not the first person who's thought I was Jim.

BTW, thanks for the advice on the crank, pistons, etc. I'm sure I'll be looking for more when I get aroud to building my engine. From the looks of it, you're cetainly enjoying yours. I've enjoyed reading about the progress. Keep us posted.

**rwh11385** · 10-23-2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Stu Mc

AWESOME SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....... Aluminum blocks rock!!! ................... have a square bottomend, which rocks.

ha, Look at Stu getting HYPED! :P It's not even your block and you're hyped for the idea.
That is one tight score..... I'd be happy as hell.

Square stroke and bore is hella-sweet..... or use a 3.0 crank and 85mm pistons..... which i'm too lazy to figure out, should be near square.

You'll have plenty of time to think of the way you want to build up your engine, and tons of time to celebrate your great find. 8)

**BeirBrennerE30** · 10-23-2003, 01:11 PM

isnt a 3.2 crank with 84mm pistons a 3.1L??? you would need 85mm pistons to get back up to 3.2L

and why is a square bottom end so good???i know it is but why???

**Stu** · 10-23-2003, 01:52 PM

My dad is running 84mm bore in his aluminum block, with a 3.0 crank. It's about 2840-2850cc.

3.0 crank is 86.6mm
3.2 crank is 89.6

so you make almost anything out of it, just not quite a 3.2.

Yea, JRowe made me think Jim Rowe from Metric Mechanic, since you're even in the same location as him! :)

**lukasbmw** · 10-23-2003, 01:56 PM

My only concern is how mcuh rust the block has. Hopefully just surface...even then I'd imaging removing it may fuck up the rings/pistons/block. Don't the aluminum blocks have special insert sleeves?

**lukasbmw** · 10-23-2003, 01:58 PM

Also, can you tell aluminum blocks apart by the color? I've noticed most cast blocks are black. This block "looks" aluminum as it is the same color as an aluminum head or oil pan.

**rwh11385** · 10-23-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by BeirBrennerE30

isnt a 3.2 crank with 84mm pistons a 3.1L??? you would need 85mm pistons to get back up to 3.2L

and why is a square bottom end so good???i know it is but why???

Square means the bore diameter is same as stroke length. It is the balance between long stroke -> low-revving torque machine and big bore -> high rev, high horsepower engine. This was much talked about when i was in the Honda camp years ago. When building a motor, too much stroke can ruin revability....etc.

Long stroke engines run slower (lower RPMs), but (generally) produce good low- and mid-range torque. They cannot run high RPMs, because the stroke to con-rod length is too high. The higher this ratio is, the more stress the con-rod sees, especially at high revs. These engines have cams, intake, and exhaust systems designed for maximum efficiency (highest torque output) at very low revs. .....
Short stroke engines can run much higher RPMs. Engine designers will then design the cams, exhaust, intake, et al, to take advantage of the higher revs. These usually make much more HP (numerically) than lb-ft of torque, but tend to be "peaky" unless they use variable valve timing and/or lift.

from http://bimmer.roadfly.org/e30m3/mess...w18/25552.html

basically, high specific output from a motor requires a proper balance of bore/stroke and other factors. Many engines seek the perfect combo, like the 95 M3 was square, 86.4/86.4 i believe..... and the famous SR20DET from Nissan was 86/86. And the new Acura RSX is 86/86. See a pattern?

Look at the "I" and "e" engines, the I has shorter strokes, and rev like made....the e's have long strokes and are torquey.....

I'd say 84/84 is good, but well, that's stock 2.8L..... I'd go for 85 aftermarket, high-compression pistons and the 84mm crank..... for a high horse, high rev NA machine!

Or go for a long stroke, low comp, high boost monster....... just think about what applications your looking for and have a motor-builder help you...... or their sons. **cough** Stu **cough** anything he says will probably be accurate and helpful

i need to take a break, but i'll be back with calculations of all the stroke/bore combos.

**JRowe** · 10-23-2003, 02:15 PM

Well, time for a little update. We agreed on the price of 150 by email and it was confirmed that the block was aluminum. I asked for a phone number to arrange shipping and payment details.

I call the guy and he hardly speaks english, has a heavy middle-eastern accent. Now he tries to tell me that it was an employee of his that made the deal with me and he won't go any lower than $500. While that may still be a decent deal for the short block, I can't do it right now. So, the deal is off.

I hate when this happens. I don't know how many times I've had internet deals fall through due to the other party. This is the third time I've agreed with a seller to buy something (usually it's a great deal too), then the seller ends up backing out. Probably because they thought I was getting too good of a deal, and they felt they could get more money out of me. If someone tries that, then no deal. I'm not going to get raked on a deal.

I've also had it happen where I agree to sell something and usually I'm giving the person a great deal. People are quick to stake a claim to something, but the follow-up is horrible. Needless to say, if you agree to buy or sell something to someone, stick to the deal. It's extremely frustrating for the other party.

I had dreams of building this great engine and spent half the day looking up different m50/s50, m52/s52 engine specs to figure out what I might do. Now, it back to square one. I'm PISSED! We should all send tons of emails complaining about this places' business practices. Anyway. Thats the end of this post. I'll let everyone know if I find anything else.

**rwh11385** · 10-23-2003, 02:23 PM

damn..... sorry to hear it man

you know what they say, if it seems too good to be true.........

anyway, that time sent looking up M50 building wasnt wasted, that knowledge will help you later.....infact, the best thing you can do with performance tuning is read as much as you can, you might learn something new and helpful in your quest for your dream machine.

**MattM20** · 10-23-2003, 02:26 PM

theyre not as rare as you think. all 96+ (or maybe 98+) E36's (2.5 and 2.8L's) had alluminum blocks, its not just for z3's

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