How much better would an e30 M3 be than my 87 325is?

[DCColegrove]

You mean s42 e36?

Gee...

Thanks...

I mean an M42...Easy upkeep.

[Stephen]

nah you guys got it all wrong, eta Powered M3

Chipped of course

[Old'n'Slow]

what is so different about the suspension?

Same mcpherson design in the front. same trailing arms in the rear. the only differences are extra track width, the swaybar attatchment in the front, and offset cabs for more caster, all of which are very simple (and common) narrowbody mods.

Almost. The castor also comes from the way the front axle is designed. You cannot approach it with offset bushings. The early M3s (like mine) didn't have offset bushings when stock, but still had triple the castor! Can't be effectively duplicated without the right parts.

the weight - not really much lighter, if any. Most E30s will fall in the 2600-2750 range, and it's not hard to shed 200lbs without completely gutting the car.

True, but the rigidity from the bonded glass makes the car feel way lighter.

All in all, I love my E30 M3, but after a long drive on the freeway, I'm ready to get out. But on the Dragon on a beautiful spring morning.....different story altogether.

And the S14 requires near constant fiddling to keep it happy, unlike the M20. 300K from a motor without 2 or 3 costly rebuilds? Fugedaboudit.

[DCColegrove]

...

And the S14 requires near constant fiddling to keep it happy...

I agree 100%...

Except I'd say "almost happy"

[TDE30]

You mean s42 e36? Oh you mean e30 m3 w/11k redline m42.

[blunttech]

Almost. The castor also comes from the way the front axle is designed. You cannot approach it with offset bushings. The early M3s (like mine) didn't have offset bushings when stock, but still had triple the castor! Can't be effectively duplicated without the right parts.



True, but the rigidity from the bonded glass makes the car feel way lighter.

All in all, I love my E30 M3, but after a long drive on the freeway, I'm ready to get out. But on the Dragon on a beautiful spring morning.....different story altogether.

And the S14 requires near constant fiddling to keep it happy, unlike the M20. 300K from a motor without 2 or 3 costly rebuilds? Fugedaboudit.

"And the S14 requires near constant fiddling to keep it happy, unlike the M20."

you must have something on its last legs. i know tons of guys who change oil and filters and beat on their s14's. hell, i know avi, who maintained his s14 with a putty knife and it never quit. they are expensive motors and by their nature will require more frequent rebuilds but i find them a pretty stout motor

[dlmrun2002]

M2's

If only 2002's came with S14 motors....Then what Philly Blunt??? Nice mention in Roundel by Mike Self on your car and its B I G lights...
Doug M NY :drink: M2

[blunttech]

If only 2002's came with S14 motors....Then what Philly Blunt??? Nice mention in Roundel by Mike Self on your car and its B I G lights...
Doug M NY :drink: M2

where was that? i didnt see it. is it this months?

[Old'n'Slow]

"And the S14 requires near constant fiddling to keep it happy, unlike the M20."

you must have something on its last legs. i know tons of guys who change oil and filters and beat on their s14's. hell, i know avi, who maintained his s14 with a putty knife and it never quit. they are expensive motors and by their nature will require more frequent rebuilds but i find them a pretty stout motor

There's running, and then there's the state of tune the makers had in mind. I was speaking of the latter.

Trust me. Mine is [b]not[/] on its last legs. :)

[clydesdale]

Well, I did get some useful info from this thread, thanks. What kind of added maint is involved in the m3 over the 325is? Were the motors that much less reliable?
For those that said test drive one - you are aware that they are hard to find? I can't just easily test drive one. Therefore it is much easier to gather some info on the net and determine whether or not it is worth pursuing. I LOVE the look of them. But, I would want to drive it, not have a garage queen. My original question pertained to whether or not the DRIVE is worth the extra 10-15k over a 325is. I acknowledge the prestige and history but I am curious about the drive. I realize that I need to get behind the wheel of one to really know. But, they are not easy to just go and test drive.
So what makes them so much more expensive to maintain than the 325is.
I have had my 325is for 6 years and have put 50k on it. It has 249k miles on it. It is plenty reliable for a daily driver.

[blunttech]

i dont understand the mystique behind the s14. its got a crank and rods and piston and a couple cams with solid lifters. yes its more prone to leaks and yes its buzzy but its not any less reliable than any other motor with the same parts. the fact that it gets beat to shit in most circumstances probably has something to do with the fact it needs more care. and parts arent cheap. but an s14 in good mechanical order driven in a responsible manner will give you good reliability and a lot of fun

[Old'n'Slow]

So what makes them so much more expensive to maintain than the 325is?

Well, let's see. First off, any parts needed will be at least 3X the cost of non-M parts. Price of exclusivity. Second, the S14 wants a tune-up, that is, plugs, valve adj (done by using shims of varying thicknesses-the kit is $700 from BMW), dist cap and rotor, and all filters every 15-20K. The intake gaskets need replacing regularly, (a HUGE PITA) unless you get the Dinan one$. The header nuts rattle off regularly and need to be looked after. Hell, the motor is so rough by today's standards-your shift linkage will need a good SSK, or at least regular rebuilds to keep it from buzzing in the cabin. Third, if you can't DIY all this stuff, finding someone who knows how to service a handbuilt motorsport engine will be difficult and additionally expensive. But worst of all, fat chicks will try to sit on the wing and break it. That wing is nearly impossible to keep looking nice, too, because it is made from cardboard and fiberglass and paint doesn't like to flex as much as it does. IT'S A RACE CAR FER HEAVEN'S SAKE! :p And I love mine.

Figure at least 18K for a nice one. If it's got more than about 100K on it, you want to see history of head work performed by a reputable shop. Any M3 should come with STACKS of receipts. If not, run! When the engine needs major work, the car will likely be down for weeks at a time. But then, a 20+ year old race car should probably not be your sole mode of transportation.....especially if you are driving 20 year old cars because you don't have lots of disposable income!

I have had my 325is for 6 years and have put 50k on it. It has 249k miles on it. It is plenty reliable for a daily driver.

An M is a totally different ballgame.

[Old'n'Slow]

i dont understand the mystique behind the s14. its got a crank and rods and piston and a couple cams with solid lifters. yes its more prone to leaks and yes its buzzy but its not any less reliable than any other motor with the same parts. the fact that it gets beat to shit in most circumstances probably has something to do with the fact it needs more care. and parts arent cheap. but an s14 in good mechanical order driven in a responsible manner will give you good reliability and a lot of fun

Part of it is the double deck head. A real trick to properly assemble and make right. Also the fact it was hand built in Munich by the same guys that were building the other race motors is neat. It's a rather large 4 pot that would go 8K happily. In race trim, the 2.5s were doing 10,800RPM for qualifying!

Reliable, yes, but not the same DNA as the run-forever-with-basic-maintenance M20.

[DCColegrove]

It is very hard to find techs with any experience on the s14 let alone ones that have the proper tools...

I can't tell you how many busted shim buckets I've seen because someone tried to adjust the valves without the correct tools.

That...

And I just hate working on them.

EDIT: I should add though, I really loved to drive them... when I was younger.

[Old'n'Slow]

^^^ LOL at the edit! I feel you, man.....

Looking for that nice E28 535is for the long drives now. The M goes out on short drives when I can have the windows down. Otherwise, the racket inside makes me nuts!