How much better would an e30 M3 be than my 87 325is?

[cferb]

Perhaps actual spec comparisons would be more helpful than "omg e30m3 ftw!11"

On later 3 series, the "class difference" between base models and M models is very apparent strictly from a horsepower perspective (100+ more).

Aside from a MODEST advantage in horsepower (while receiving a torque deficit), along with slightly faster steering ratio, and slightly more aggressive springs and sways, what gives a stock M a clear edge over a lightly modified 325is (with say, chip and coilovers)?

I think this is what the OP wants to know.

Well to start with it doesn't weigh as much, and the suspension is set up differently and better. An m3 on race springs would handle better than a 325is on the same race springs, I'm not sure if coilovers would have the same difference.

[zedfez]

Perhaps actual spec comparisons would be more helpful than "omg e30m3 ftw!11"

On later 3 series, the "class difference" between base models and M models is very apparent strictly from a horsepower perspective (100+ more).

Aside from a MODEST advantage in horsepower (while receiving a torque deficit), along with slightly faster steering ratio, and slightly more aggressive springs and sways, what gives a stock M a clear edge over a lightly modified 325is (with say, chip and coilovers)?

I think this is what the OP wants to know.

It does have a wider wheelbase, different suspension geometry (much more caster), larger wheels and tires (and more aftermarket choices because of the 5 lug), different gear ratios, and different body panels which both improved aerodynamics and reduced body flex.

All in all, if you are good at and enjoy driving your cars to their limits, the M3 will be worth it 100%. If you drive like a normal person, it will just be like a 325 with a less useful torque curve.

[Julien]

e30m3 would suck as a daily driver. 325is is much more suited for traffic and general stop and go stuff.

[reelizmpro]

There is actually an article that addresses your question by comparing the 325iS and M3 in 1988. Its scanned online somewhere. Maybe Anthony (Motoyen.com) has it somewhere. Ive owned both at the same time and must say that the 325iS can do most of the things the M3 can for less money. Its a better all round car for the street or track with some mods of course. The M3 is a different beast though. It's raw, and begs to be revved. It actually has more peak HP and Torque (not by much). It just doesnt feel like it because it's a peaky engine. A stock M3 is terrible to drive on the street. You need at least a chip, which makes a big difference (+25HP) and greatly improves the drivability of the car. Is it worth owning? Hell yes, it's a legend and one of the most well known and desired BMW's ever but if you aren't willing to put up with it, you may be better off with a modded 325. With the money saved you can get an S52 swap and then some.

[FredK]

A stock M3 is terrible to drive on the street.

Nah, it's not that bad. How do people in bone stock 1984-85 M10 powered cars survive? :p

But yeah, you have to weigh what is important to you. People that feel the 325iS is better because it has more torque should definitely save their money, drop in an S50/52 and call it a day.

IMO the feel at turn-in is what separates the E30 M3 from the six cylinder E30s.

[MikeK]

Nah, it's not that bad. How do people in bone stock 1984-85 M10 powered cars survive? :p

But yeah, you have to weigh what is important to you. People that feel the 325iS is better because it has more torque should definitely save their money, drop in an S50/52 and call it a day.

IMO the feel at turn-in is what separates the E30 M3 & 318is from the six cylinder E30s.

or a 318 you dick.

[FredK]

You're off my Christmas card list.

:razz:

[MikeK]

You're off my Christmas card list.

:razz:

probably was a short list anyways

[FredK]

I'll have to put in the word with Santa, to tell him to stuff your stockings with coal this Christmas.

[Optimator]

or a 318 you dick.

You're very spunky.

What's wrong with the M20-powered cars? When I was slicing and dicing the back roads of CT I never really felt the car was deficient... maybe I'll have to see what the hype over the 318is is all about!

[Julien]

Nah, it's not that bad. How do people in bone stock 1984-85 M10 powered cars survive? :p

it's not a question of power, but a question of driveability.. for instance my 318ic (bone stock m40) is more drivable in traffic than my 2.7L high compression m20 with ltw flywheel and shrick cam.. Just didn't enjoy the e30 m3 until I took out of a street setting (I drove tim shuddard's e30m3 when grassroots did the e30 challenge both on a street course and on the skidpad)

Julien

[E30_Pare]

Nah, it's not that bad. How do people in bone stock 1984-85 M10 powered cars survive? :p

woah.. woah.. woah.. pump the brakes there buddy. I survive fine with my m10. lol.

[FredK]

Pump the brakes? Is that what M10 powered 318 drivers have to do, because the engine barely provides enough power to move the car forward, never mind vacuum to the booster? :razz:

[MikeK]

with the drum brakes in the rear, they'll need alot of pumpin

[rThor432]

All this talk of 4-banger's having better turn-in is making me not want to sell my 318is..

I like the revvy nature and bodywork of the M3, but really it depends on what you want. You can turn the same lap time in either one if both are similarly prepared (same springs/shocks/tires/driver).