The Official F1 2009 Thread

[DarkWing6]

Just read this:

http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com/en/index.html?jumpin=/news/~101/&lity=rssfeed_f1#/news/~101/|0/

That answers my questions as to why Kubica was trying to get past Vettel so quickly instead of just taking his time with 3 laps and a faster car. If he would have been past Vettel cleanly there then he would have been able to catch (who knows, maybe pass) Button in those last 3 laps.

[Hick]

Great race. time to address some comments!

Fellas.... Vettel has been handed a 10 postion grid penalty for that move. Kubica was on the harder of the tires, and Vettel ran his off, much like why Nico was dropping like a rock. Kubica was CLEARLY faster, and was well on his way to pressuring Button. I see that it was a racing incedent but Vettel is more to blame IMO, since he forced the issue, kubica stuck wide for the next corner, vettle came over into him because he pushed too hard into the corner [and off line]

Massa had an issue early on. He pit in 3rd and came out 13th, where as people in 5th pit and came out 7 -9ish. Word has it, Massa had a front suspension issue.

Also, Heikki punted Rublins into turn one, that was not Rubins fault.

Hamilton made it to third... after Kubica, Vettel, Kimi, and Nico ran into issues. Lucky, to say the least.

Next race i expect to see a lot of new difusers, since the hearing isnt until the 3rd race. might see some cool 'one off/race' designs for Malaysia

[Jon325i]

Great race. time to address some comments!

Fellas.... Vettel has been handed a 10 postion grid penalty for that move. Kubica was on the harder of the tires, and Vettel ran his off, much like why Nico was dropping like a rock. Kubica was CLEARLY faster, and was well on his way to pressuring Button. I see that it was a racing incedent but Vettel is more to blame IMO, since he forced the issue, kubica stuck wide for the next corner, vettle came over into him because he pushed too hard into the corner [and off line]

Massa had an issue early on. He pit in 3rd and came out 13th, where as people in 5th pit and came out 7 -9ish. Word has it, Massa had a front suspension issue.

Also, Heikki punted Rublins into turn one, that was not Rubins fault.

Hamilton made it to third... after Kubica, Vettel, Kimi, and Nico ran into issues. Lucky, to say the least.

Next race i expect to see a lot of new difusers, since the hearing isnt until the 3rd race. might see some cool 'one off/race' designs for Malaysia

Good points - and hearing about this 10 spot grid penalty is news to me. From a TV viewers' perspective, I was under the impression that it was Kubica's fault....Vettel was simply trying to defend his position on the track when he had a mirror full of BMW/Sauber. But come to think of it (having re-watched it a couple times on the DVR), Kubica did have nearly half a car length on Vettel deep into the braking zone when he was committed to the turn. I'm sure the race officials have a lot more information about the Vettel/Kubica event than I do as an observer, hence the final outcome and said penalty weighed on Vettel. I am assuming that since neither finished this 10 spot wrist-slap will be effective in Malaysia post qualifying.

As for new rear defuser configurations: with the next race in Malaysia in just 7 days will there be time to get something together? Clearly there won't be any testing going on between now and then. Given the logistics and scaled back testing for this season, you would think that any new defuser configurations wouldn't appear after both the FIA hearing next month and after the teams have returned to their respective headquarters in Europe.

I think the best drives of the day have to go to Lewis Hamilton and Jarno Trulli - both starting from waaaay in the back (Jarno from pitlane) to finish where they did is clearly some great driving. Poor Nico Rosberg had a promising day until the last few laps when he suddenly was off pace significantly due to tire wear.....which brings me to my final point. The Speed commentators stated that the tire supplier Bridgstone brought with them two compounds for the teams to use which neither were considered ideal - that they did it as a challenge for the teams to sort out. Do you guys think that doing this is in the best interest of the sport? One could argue that doing this could be a safety concern for the drivers.


Jon

[hugh jass]

Good points - and hearing about this 10 spot grid penalty is news to me. From a TV viewers' perspective, I was under the impression that it was Kubica's fault....Vettel was simply trying to defend his position on the track when he had a mirror full of BMW/Sauber. But come to think of it (having re-watched it a couple times on the DVR), Kubica did have nearly half a car length on Vettel deep into the braking zone when he was committed to the turn. I'm sure the race officials have a lot more information about the Vettel/Kubica event than I do as an observer, hence the final outcome and said penalty weighed on Vettel. I am assuming that since neither finished this 10 spot wrist-slap will be effective in Malaysia post qualifying.

As for new rear defuser configurations: with the next race in Malaysia in just 7 days will there be time to get something together? Clearly there won't be any testing going on between now and then. Given the logistics and scaled back testing for this season, you would think that any new defuser configurations wouldn't appear after both the FIA hearing next month and after the teams have returned to their respective headquarters in Europe.

I think the best drives of the day have to go to Lewis Hamilton and Jarno Trulli - both starting from waaaay in the back (Jarno from pitlane) to finish where they did is clearly some great driving. Poor Nico Rosberg had a promising day until the last few laps when he suddenly was off pace significantly due to tire wear.....which brings me to my final point. The Speed commentators stated that the tire supplier Bridgstone brought with them two compounds for the teams to use which neither were considered ideal - that they did it as a challenge for the teams to sort out. Do you guys think that doing this is in the best interest of the sport? One could argue that doing this could be a safety concern for the drivers.


Jon

I don't see it as a safety issue (a real safety issue is something like that tire failures at Indy), but it is strange. Since when have tire companies decided that issuing challenges via the tires they supply is a good idea? It's like the tail wagging the dog. It should be much more thought out. Bringing a hard tire and a super-soft tire isn't in the best interest of the race. Bringing a hard and a medium would have made for closer racing for more laps.

I was impressed by Vittles manning up so quickly after punting Kubica, especially on his team radio. Usually the first thing out of the drivers mouth after an accident is 'the other guy is an idiot'. Kudos to him for admitting fault, even though both drivers had the red mist and ruined their chances for a podium.

[z31maniac]

FIA told Bridgestone to do it.

[Hick]

As for new rear defuser configurations: with the next race in Malaysia in just 7 days will there be time to get something together? Clearly there won't be any testing going on between now and then. Given the logistics and scaled back testing for this season, you would think that any new defuser configurations wouldn't appear after both the FIA hearing next month and after the teams have returned to their respective headquarters in Europe.

ABSOLUTLY!

With the obvious difference in downforce some teams would be stupid not to come up with something. If the FIA rules that the difusers are illegal they will be force to change back, if a big team such as Ferrari or McMerc can come up with something before then. Yes the ban on in season testing means that we wont see any changes until testing dosent mean they havent already developed anything. Im sure someone at every team was working on a different difuser as soon as the stewarts let it be known that the 'illegal' difusers would be allowed to run.

I like the tire rule, to be honest. After the first stint with Massa and Kubica struggling after only a few laps, i knew that teams running them late would have issues. Brawn was smart in running a long second stint and only putting the tires on for the last 10-12 laps. Williams ran Nico way too long on tires, and Vettel pushed his tires very hard to keep Rubins then Kubica back.

[maniacmatt]

Just read this:

http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com/en/index.html?jumpin=/news/~101/&lity=rssfeed_f1#/news/~101/|0/

That answers my questions as to why Kubica was trying to get past Vettel so quickly instead of just taking his time with 3 laps and a faster car. If he would have been past Vettel cleanly there then he would have been able to catch (who knows, maybe pass) Button in those last 3 laps.

Exactly! Don't forget when the guys who started on the soft tires, massa, kubica, etc. pitted around lap 12 they were running 4-5 seconds a lap slower than button and vettel on the hard tires.

When Kubica made the move he was only 4.5-5 seconds behind Button with 3 laps to go who had been out close to 10 laps on the soft tires. Would have made for an incredible finish.

[Ray Smoodiver]

Thank you FIA for agreeing with me. If you look at the in car camera, you can see Vettel have two goes at braking for the corner, the first one was indecisive, and the second, the rear got loose and he made a complete meal of things.

[E30Kaiser]

I don't see why you would wait for a corner to pass someone with crappy tires, obviously they aren't going to have grip and when you push them off the racing line it is even worse. Wait until the straightaway or a better corner. I say it is 50/50 in who is at blame with Vettel and Kubica.

As for the Diffuser Flavio said that the other teams will basically be running the diffuser at Barcelona if there isn't a rulling in their favor. Hopefully they will get them quicker with the Melbourne decision.

[gazellebeigem3]

ABSOLUTLY!

With the obvious difference in downforce some teams would be stupid not to come up with something. If the FIA rules that the difusers are illegal they will be force to change back, if a big team such as Ferrari or McMerc can come up with something before then. Yes the ban on in season testing means that we wont see any changes until testing dosent mean they havent already developed anything. Im sure someone at every team was working on a different difuser as soon as the stewarts let it be known that the 'illegal' difusers would be allowed to run.

I like the tire rule, to be honest. After the first stint with Massa and Kubica struggling after only a few laps, i knew that teams running them late would have issues. Brawn was smart in running a long second stint and only putting the tires on for the last 10-12 laps. Williams ran Nico way too long on tires, and Vettel pushed his tires very hard to keep Rubins then Kubica back.

nascar is better

[Jean]

Wow, what a race... and I am just going to quote this "Glad to see the Brawn guys doing well Button and Barrichello are both class acts, I hope they continue to do well throughout the season."

:)

[e30pwr]

These new rules make this season look like its gonna be fricken intense. Kubica's mess was a 50/50 on whose fault. I still pull for him as a driver. Anybody know where torrents are for the races?

[Hick]

You guys dont get it! Kubica held the correct line around the outside setting up for a left hander which would put him by easy. Vettel ran in too fast and washed the front out.

im sure a lot of you children have r3v'd your e30s by doing just this [see bald tires, rain, 90 degree turn, curb] its no different!

When the FIA hands out a penalty to only one of the drivers, its no longer up in the air.

[Jparkr]

You guys dont get it! Kubica held the correct line around the outside setting up for a left hander which would put him by easy. Vettel ran in too fast and washed the front out.

im sure a lot of you children have r3v'd your e30s by doing just this [see bald tires, rain, 90 degree turn, curb] its no different!

When the FIA hands out a penalty to only one of the drivers, its no longer up in the air.

I agree and see your point, and I can't argue the FIA findings since they have far more evidence. So i guess I will consider it vettle's fault from now on.
On a slightly related note, there were multiple cars going 2 wide through that complex all race. Kubica had to know vettle was still on his side pod, unless he just assumed he had let him by clean. But the battle was for second, Anyone of us would have pushed the issue like vettle did for that position, and Kubica should have realized that. He was probably just thinking about pushing to Button though.

[Jand3rson]

All I can do is echo most of what's being said here, but I have to agree that Vettle should have yielded. He had to know that with only 3 laps to go, and with the BMW Sauber car being faster than his, he had no chance, especially on those tires. It was more Vettle's fault, but they both had a hand in it.

I will agree with e30pwr, this is going to be an interesting season, for sure. Going to be interesting to see what Brawn puts down for the rest of the season.

And count me down for a vote to get rid of that KERS system bullshit.