For those that bitch about newer Bimmers being disconnected

[rwh11385]

Personally, I disagree with Jay....

I prefer E46s over E36s. If you are going to get some a plush, comfortable car....go the whole way....not halfway. They may be some heavy sumbitches, but the interior is nicer than E36 by far, and the doors don't seem as cheap.

Of course, that excludes the E36 M3, which is definately more fun/connected/cool, but the new M3 feels plush with the joy of the raspy exhaust.

As far as connected, a 330Ci feels nice, if you are just looking to drive moderately comfortably. And is pretty fun sometimes. Not all rough and rugged all the time.


But with driving a couple Benz I was in (one at work......another on a test drive which Amazon have me a gift card for :P ), they are the suck. The steering of a C230 kompressor made me want to drive it into a tree......if I could manage to navigatge it there.

Tossability, fun, connectedness.....are all traded off for comfort, plushness, and modernness. Not everyone digs a more jolting ride or the sounds of old engine. The people BMW wants to sell to are practical.

Call me weird, but past the annoying tapping of our valves, I dig the sound of the old M20. Sure, S50s, new 3.0L's, and S54's sound sweet......but I got a thing for the "classic" tones of the old school beast. Then again, occasionally I am annoyed by my noisy running engine, but at least it's mechanical sounds and not whining of the fan on newer cars.

[1985bmw325e]

BMW nowadays are not aimed for the road-aggressive, track rat. BMW's stand in the automotive industry is targetted to people who are rich, and who are generally over 35. Therefore, the new cars being packaged with luxurious entities..

BMW doesn't care if they're heavy cars, because people pay for them, and people pay for the name----the name for luxury.

For those of you who bitch about new BMWs, you guys can suck a fat one.

[Rob]

sure, we can. doesnt mean we're going to jock these land boats like they're being advertised. at least MB and lexus doesnt front like their cars are sporty

[1985bmw325e]

sure, we can. doesnt mean we're going to jock these land boats like they're being advertised. at least MB and lexus doesnt front like their cars are sporty

True, in commericals, BMW in general does present their cars as sporty when 90% of their cars aren't. But people dont really take that commercial literally, and when they see that commercial they go into some hypnotic state and just think "bmw....mmm...luxury" (a little exxagerated but you get the point).

BMW portrays their cars similar to how audi does, but i'd rather drive an audi because the way they present it is no "Front" at all.

I totally dont bash on new bmws, mainly because it's not targetted to my generation in general.

[rwh11385]

I'd just like to point how how every single Mazda is Zoom Zoom....especially the mini van.

[Rob]

thank goodness some companies still make fun to drive cars

[nando]

as far as things like elctronic throttles, that can't be avoided. there IS no butterfly to control with a traditional throttle, it's actually controlled by the VANOS unit and how far each valve opens. from a performance standpoint this is the best way because there is no door or butterfly to block airflow (like our lovely AFM).

and unless you're taking your car to a track, why would you want to turn off ABS? I think there is a lot of misunderstanding what ABS was designed for (here's a hint, it's not to make you stop faster).

[Mystikal]

as far as things like elctronic throttles, that can't be avoided. there IS no butterfly to control with a traditional throttle, it's actually controlled by the VANOS unit and how far each valve opens. from a performance standpoint this is the best way because there is no door or butterfly to block airflow (like our lovely AFM).

Very true, although they could really work on the feel of them. I have yet to drive a car with an electronic throttle that doesn't have an extremely softly sprung pedal. This is best illustrated in M52 vs. M54 E46's, the throttle feel is insanely better in the older cars.

[Rob]

what jay said. the throttle feel in porsche's is much much more 'mechanical' feeling compared to the BMW, and Porsche has been using electronic throttles since 97

[Charlie]

as far as things like elctronic throttles, that can't be avoided. there IS no butterfly to control with a traditional throttle, it's actually controlled by the VANOS unit and how far each valve opens. from a performance standpoint this is the best way because there is no door or butterfly to block airflow (like our lovely AFM).

Very true, although they could really work on the feel of them. I have yet to drive a car with an electronic throttle that doesn't have an extremely softly sprung pedal. This is best illustrated in M52 vs. M54 E46's, the throttle feel is insanely better in the older cars.

Go test drive a new Titan. It's got an e-throttle that you could definetly call "responsive", I'd call it "jerky".

390 ft/lbs might help that as well.

-Charlie

[Mystikal]

Go test drive a new Titan. It's got an e-throttle that you could definetly call "responsive", I'd call it "jerky".

390 ft/lbs might help that as well.

-Charlie

I think it's a Nissan thing. I drove a friend's '04 Maxima last week, I lit 'em up trying to reverse out of the driveway. :shock:

[Nate325ic]

BMW's cars are sporty. They are not sports cars, there is a difference. the people who bitch about the cars being to disconnected are usually the ones that cant afford a new one and are stuck with a 20 year old one if they like it or not. Its just a coping mechanism. there are a few exceptions. those that drive the higher end e30s could have a cheap e36 but actually prefer the e30. Everyone else is driving an eta.
The new BMWs can still corner like its nobody's business, even the new 7 series. and they can out perform alot of cars classified as sports cars. but they are luxury cars first so they are going to be "cushy"

[Rob]

oh yeah, I almost forgot, american cars suck

[spencers]

Save for the Z4, ( and even it too is bulky)

I have to disagree

[e30fiend]

Here's a thought: have you ever considered what the advantage or disadvantage of being more "connected" actually is? IMHO, the term is generally used when referring to handling characteristics in a non-standard driving scenario, IE by people who use their cars for more than daily drivers. The reason it is important to be more connected is that we, as drivers, are presumably more capable of extracting power and performance from our cars than the technology which is "disconnecting" us.

Technology, however, seems to be catching up in newer cars (which I believe to be inevitable), almost to the point that it does not "interfere" with people trying to push their cars more than the average joe would. And it's not just there for safety purposes either. The bottom line is that cars are already so advanced and complex enough to exceed the capabilities of drivers to handle them properly, thus auto makers build systems that can do it for you.

Of course never forget that being a member of this board automatically removes you from the general public to whom the cars we speak of are being designed, marketed, and sold to.

Just my $.02